Talk:Stats

Earlier discussions are archived.

Currently wiki states formula for crit damage as (Base damage roll) + (Max Damage * Crit Modifiers). I ran some tests, and found this to be inaccurate. I got crit damage values less than what would be using this formula. The data makes sense if we use (Base damage roll) + (Base damage roll * Crit Modifier). I understand tests like this run only few hundred data points, but having even if 1 value from test (I got 3-4 values from ingame testing that gave crit damage values less than what would be expected as minimum crit damage using current wiki formula) that contradicts formula should be enough to disprove it.

Would anyone mind looking into this? I would make the edit, but am not certain current formula is wrong, and while the one I proposed makes sense, am not sure it is correct either with utmost certainity.

My testing at 521~763 Damage Range with a bonus critical damage modifier of 1.67 and a bonus damage modifier of 1.4 yielded bare handed attack critical hit values ranging from 1820 to 2065, which is exactly consistent with the formula as it exists. If your proposed formula were accurate, I would expect to see values in the 1400~1800 range, but I did not at any point.

I recommend double-checking that the target you're using for your tests has 0 protection, and also checking to ensure that you've properly adjusted your formula to add together any multiple sources of crit damage you may have.

My testing was with damage range 593 - 793 with 1.57 crit modifier. Expected values per wiki are in range 1838 - 2038. But I obtained few crit hits, 1757, 1816, 1734 lower than expected value.

From your calculations, I notice I didn't include bonus damage, but that's irrelavent as it wouldn't explain the lower values. I tested on brown foxes.

The chances you didn't see values lower are perhaps cause your sample was small? These four contradictory values I got from testing was from around 70-100 hits.... Appreciate your help!

If you believe with absolute confidence that the data you have is correct, please provide your data you have to claim that the information is incorrect. Also note that there is a lot of extra variance in stats, equipment, totems, bonus damage, crit dmg, etc that need to be factored in. Make sure that you have all possible external variables controlled.

I will try to upload the data as soon as I can. I have it on paper than in an excel spreadsheet.

I am aware there can be a lot of variance in stats, which is why I was asking help to verify. Someone else testing and reaching same conclusion would be a better proof than data check cause we can't really 'verify' my data as I can only state my stats and others have to believe it. (Unless many screenshots of stat window, Homestead, renown etc). Perhaps I can simplify things by testing again on an alt....

I will still upload mine incase anyone wants to see.

I tested again on an alt, with relatively no skills leveled, so their balance is 50% with rF Critical Hit. The data file is an excel file, and am unable to upload it here (I couldn't figure how to). Damage numbers being smaller it was easier to see that sometimes, foxes use defense skill without the skill icon and that causes reduced crit hits. I plotted the damage distribution as well from 136 damage points, so I can confirm there was enough damage rolls from lower end, due to low balance. The Crit Damage formula seems consistent even at minimum critical hits.

I am unsure if defense skill from foxes is only issue in my old test, I couldn't find what rank Brown foxes have for defense skill. But from the test on alt, it seems it is rF cause reduction seemed ~20?

Thanks for the help with solving my confusion!

So I think this discussion can be closed ^^

I'm asking here as the page isn't 100% clear: what sources do stack, and what sources of move speed do not stack? The tiny nature of most move speed bonuses imply that many sources do in fact stack, but its pretty much impossible to test due to the lack of visible stat and the bonuses being too small to reliable test in game.

Ex: If I had fleet feet, wave sweeper, goose feather, and a title, would I only get the benefits from the fleet feet and wave sweeper?

I have some tests at the bottom of the page here, but I haven't tested the feather stacking because it's very tedious to do this type of test, I don't have a wave sweeper, and 1% differences are almost impossible to tell.

https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/User:Rydian/Speed

You get a free (unrepairable) 10% wave sweeper from g21. I want to be able to test feather and the 2% title myself but I agree, the 1-2% boosts are so small you can't factor out latency in a way that still maintains accuracy of distance moved.

> You get a free (repairable) 10% wave sweeper from g21.

I wish.

Non-repairable and mine hit 0 from AFK.

https://i.imgur.com/O1mZBOT.png

I just noticed this happening, not sure if it's a bug or what. If you're below a certain threshold of stamina when you switch weapons, you refill to a certain number. On this character (who has 125(106) max stamina) it refills to 25, and on my old main with 1118(999) max stamina it refills to 64. Just tested by leaving Spellwalk on and trying a couple combinations, It's weirdly unreliable if both hands in a set/slot (whatever it's called) are empty, and it seems like it happens more when you're switching to a weapon and not bare hands.

edit: (The threshold and the number it refills to are the same, the numbers in parenthesis are base stamina.)

This is just a wild guess but I assume it has something to do with talent stats... Uh, to clarify: by 'weapon' I mean anything you can hold. It even happens with Empty Bottle/Bottled Water.

(As I'm trying to test this it's just being crazy. Works eventually even without anything in any slot. If this is a bug it might just get progressively "worse" or...something...I have no idea.) I've played this game for like 7 years and I never noticed this.

Is it new? A bug? My higher-level character I tested it on is nowhere near beginners benefits, so if it's that it must be broken...?

In any case <.< I hope my first post on this wiki doesn't violate the "exploitable bugs" rule.

Hello, I believe this has to do with the amount of stamina that weapons require. For instance, dual wielding swords will take up a lot more stamina compared to a wand. I can see how this can be exploited but I never really thought about it.

I feel like the stats page is too big so I want to move the status effects into its own page. Just asking for any opinion/objections since its a big page

I am tempted to redo this page with tabs, but Kadalyn would have my head for it. qq

But yeah I guess moving the Status Effects - along with the picture gallery - somewhere else seems like a good start.

Hm, maybe~ The page is long, but doesn't take long to load like the Clothing List pages, and you can just use the Contents index to go directly to Status Effects...

However, if it was moved, my only concern would be all the changed links. Wouldn't want links like Melody Step Effect linking to the Stats page with no Status Effects listed.

If the Status Effects had it's own page, it could maybe be reformatted so that the specific status link goes to that status instead of just the top of the list (e.g. Stats#Hunger links directly to that section).

So those are my thoughts at the moment. Not against a move, just worried about links /o/

I am not against tabs, but I don't think it would be fit here. It never really made sense to me why status effects were a subsection of this page. Re-linking everything would be quite the undertaking though, there's something like thousands of links to that page. Most likely a decent chunk can be fixed by changing the equipment templates for set effects, I'd wager. But beyond that you'd have to go case by case to figure out what's a legitimate link to Stats and what should go to Status Effects. But as Elide said, anchoring would be very nice.

Meh, it's probably less than about 400, since most of the links come from just regular stats.

If someone has an idea on how to split the page properly and make a decent-looking Status Effect page, I can take care of the link issue.

Edit after checking: It might even be less than 50, the status effects are not linked from any equipment page itself, and most of them are Equipment Combination Effects rather than Status Effects.

How long has it really been since the protection information hasn't changed when it comes to crit calculation?

Recently, it's been ridiculous how many people are misinformed of how crit and protection works. I see that the crit section was accurate, but the Defense/Protection part said the old information. Please. Let's pay some attention and be consistent. It's been years since the Enlightenment patch...

Wiki died long ago.

I'm in denial, so I still add fashion things, since numbers aren't my thing oAo That being said - Number People, you will always have work here so you'll never be bored! :D

Is there anyway to decrease the chances of inflicting Deadly status (and just killing them instead)?

It can be an inconvenient when cleaning multiple waves and having those few mobs somehow in Deadly status, yet killing the majority from one attack.

Is more Max Damage needed? Or possibly higher Will (since it has an effect on someone going into Deadly status instead of unconscious)?

** This question is a bit petty; an answer isn't in dire need. Opinions and theories are welcome to discuss

“	The player has +30% balance when wielding nothing.	„

So, how is this specific line noteworthy, and why is it specifically listed under dexterity only when it doesn't even affect such? Bare Hands is simply a piece of equipment that's "equipped" when wielding nothing, and the Stat Modifier line states:

“	Stat modifiers are modifiers that increase or decrease base stats. They include *equipment*	„

It's redundant and out of place when listed under an area it doesn't affect. Also, are we to list "This weapon gives X amount of balance" from every single equipment?

Now, if people don't understand Bare Hands being an equipment that adds 8 max damage, 10% critical, and 30% balance, there could be a bullet under Stat Modifiers saying "Bare Hands is classified as equipment and produces stats" or along the lines.

MRW people call Bare Hands equipment

... And this is relevant to the topic at hand, how?

“	Now, if people don't understand Bare Hands being an equipment that adds 8 max damage, 10% critical, and 30% balance...	„

Just because that's your interpretation of it, doesn't mean other people should interpret it the same way. (In fact, they shouldn't)

The two lines you quoted aren't redundant since they refer to two different things: your base balance when you've got no weapons equipped and what base stats are and what they're affected by. Again, not redundant.

Your first quote is listed under dexterity because balance is affected by dexterity (ignoring other modifiers).

Your second quote is under stat modifiers because...it's referring to stat modifiers, and that equipment also modifies base stats.

What you're trying to say is unequipping weapons is the same as equipping bare fists, which, while ignoring the logical issues and confusion that goes with that statement, is just semantics.

Given that Alchemy behaves pretty similarly to Magic in terms of not using the Damage stat and both using Magic Defensive stats and triggering Mana Deflector, along with Magic having its own Critical and Balance formulas, what Critical/Balance does Alchemy use?

Why is this section even here?

First off, it's not a stat. That section is literally one giant blob of damage calculation.

Second of all, it's too complicated for anyone to bother to use. Who the hell is going to spend all that time plugging in numbers, for even skills that aren't related (this should [though this formula doesn't belong here at all] be a general formula, yet there are variables for Thunder in it...).

This godforsaken formula should be simplified (no "distance" variable for bolt spells) and placed in the related skill pages.

Its a comprehensive formula. Its a simple multiplier and siphoning formula, I dislike it myself but if you can create better than the mess that should be good. Its comprehensive as considering total for all skills. You can generally 0/1/negate out what doesn't matter, and it still lacks a few pieces of data, such as the existence of an enchant damage coeff for meteor. Its the only skill I know that may have one, probably not, but since I don't use it often or understand it enough, its not possible for me to figure it out. Shockwave does not have an enchant damage coeff.

Splitting it up probably could be a good idea, as you can technically bs that its a proper calculation best fit for each skill page, as what its doing before multipliers is editing the input of the skill itself.

I need help testing the effects of the following titles:

• the Aspiring Mage
• Aer 2nd Title
• Succubus Kristell 2nd Title

If you have any of these titles, please use icebolt on brown foxes in Tir Chonaill with no equipment or other titles on and report back the following statistics at the time of testing:

• Your intelligence stat
• Your magic attack
• Your Icebolt rank
• Your Ice Mastery rank
• Your Bolt Mastery rank
• The highest damage you managed to hit with icebolt (may require a lot of tries depending on your char's magic balance)

Aer title

• 1095 int
• 241 magic
• 1 icebolt
• 1 ice mastery
• 1 bolt mastery
• 235 damage

Interesting, Aer's 2nd title seems to add directly to the base damage of Icebolt. ALO Asuna's title's +2% bolt damage adds to the multiplier section where the masteries are. I had thought maybe Aer's title was a typo and was missing a % sign to indicate that it was adding 5% to that area as well, but I was proven wrong there.

Can I trouble you to test firebolt with 1 and 5 charges as well? If you're at rank 1 firebolt and fire mastery (and this title bonus works how I expect), you should get ~319 for 1 charge and ~2074 for 5 charges.

318 and 2069.

Hmm... Now the numbers don't make sense. :( Damn you Aer! Thanks for the help though, lol.

“	Grants the player an Absorption Enhancement, allowing them to absorb an enemies attack by 10%.	„

First, typo: Should say "enemy's" instead of "enemies".

Second, what does it do? I've heard it has a 10% chance to reduce all damage to 1. What's written is extremely vague and can easily be misinterpreted into reducing/"absorbing" damage by 10%.

Why hasn't ^ been mentioned anywhere on here yet?

Added! We've been slacking in a couple places. Guess I'll have to start stepping it up.

“	Strength (Str) adds a Damage Bonus to Melee Combat, Control Bars, Atlatl, and Dual Guns.	„

“	Will, also known as Willpower, increases the damage of Knuckles.	„

You overlooked this, Meru.

Woops, fixed. Thanks lol.

Every now and then my shuriken attacks randomly "hit" the target but do no harm to them; they take no damage, they don't stunned, etc. like Evasion Skill working against a bolt. Recently I've been hearing that Luck Evasion could be the cause; is this true or are shuriken attacks missing a glitch?

I find it hard to believe that mobs have luck evasion; out of the many times I have used Frenzy/Way of the Gun + Normal Attack spam, not once have I ever missed.

I have missed with non-crit normal attacks on Guns. No clue for Archery since people usually blame missing on not having enough aim rate or having a false 100% due to delay.

If Luck Evasion was the reason behind Archery missing frequently, that could cripple the skillset.

I think it's way too often to be just luck. Maybe shurikens have a % hit themselves.

That's quite possible, yet difficult to prove. I still say it's a glitch.

Luckily for us a glitch is in the eyes of the developers, not the players. Best you can do is ask Nexon before we call it a glitch publicly without proof.

Does this stuff even happen in KR?

KR doesn't have Ninja and probably never will. Updates JP gets related to Japanese culture typically never gets implemented in Korean versions, in all nexon games that I know of.

I didn't use Ninja enough in JP mabi to notice. With a bad connection and all, its not really viable if you're not from the same country as the server.

Oh right. But what about for dual gun and what do KRs blame archery missing on?

Same boat, I can't use Dual Guns or Archery in KR because of how latency dependent they are and I don't live anywhere near South Korea.

Well, either way. I'm sure they do have luck evasion because I was training in shyllien, and I missed the rabbits there sometimes with guns.

Haven't we seen monsters get lucky finishes on marionettes? Perhaps when we gained luck evasion, everything with luck gained it

Yes, and they can do it to NPCs and Summoned Golems too, and they've been doing that since G9 if I'm not mistaken. However, it is still possible to lucky finish with 0 luck.

I still think its odd how they don't lucky finish us players though.

Slightly related, but is by any chance Explosive Kunai evadable with both the skill and stat by players? I've seen monsters set it off but take no damage or flinch.

EDIT: Tested and stepped on roughly 20 mines with 182 luck, I got hit by all of them and not once did Luck Evasion trigger. So I have more reason to believe them missing is a glitch.

If the first 10 points of luck are non-existent and do not contribute to anything, how can we also say that losing 10 luck loses 2 critical? Last I checked, Mabinogi does not allow for negative stat values.

These statements cannot both be correct. I have observed that for OTHER stats, such as intelligence 10 points are not counted, but I have also observed inconsistencies with strength and maximum damage, as well as luck+will and critical (taking skills into account obviously).

10 Luck can easily be deducted from the luck you have through skills and what not. That's my guess anyways.

Luck is a weird stat in that the first 10 still get accounted for when gathering for bonuses and stuff...

I'm not sure about negative critical, but saying Mabinogi does not allow negative stat values is not true. You can have negative magic attack or negative magic protection if naked and int is below 10. Same is true for Magic Defense if will is below 10, and Defense if str is below 10 and you did not rank Defense.

On a semi-related note. Through testing of something that shall not be named (no not a certain hack we all know and hate), it is found that if your stat goes too high or too low, it becomes negative. (Yes too high.)

Linguistically speaking, we should be using "hunger" in the same sense we use "wound" so a full stamina bar is 0% hunger (0% wound) and half black stamina bar is 50% hunger (50% wound).

That being said, The character page uses the label "Food" to describe the proportion of working stamina, without referencing "hunger" at all (other than describing a lack of "food").

So other than the obvious intuitive leap, why are we using "Hunger"?

Hunger is mentioned during Ranald's Classes and Training, and probably in some other books. Otherwise I'm completely neutral about this topic.

My maximum stamina is 951, 63 of which comes from talents. My hunger was at 100% before I started.
I drained my stamina beforehand using r1 Spellwalk. (this was originally an attempt to see if having constantly low stamina increased hunger rate)
I then proceeded to use rC rest in my homestead for 8 hours (whilst I slept IRL). That is 480 minutes, and given the hunger rate of 1/1 minute 40 seconds, should give me about 288 hunger.
What I found in the morning was that my hunger only dropped to 83%, which is 162 hunger. Even if hunger had to eat through my talent stamina an extra time, that is still 225 hunger. It would have to eat through talent stamina two extra times to reach the expected 288 hunger.
Anyone feel up for testing this?

I've always wondered do food weight effects stack? Like if I eat 5 berries before the next tick is that better than eating 1 berry every tick.

Dem fish cakes yo

find a practical way to implement my random bar thing in my sandbox? I can't find a way. No, Abbr template does not work.

It works, but you need to specify the "2=" because of the equal signs in your code.

http://puu.sh/7Z3dr.png

Unless by "not work", you mean impractical.

It's impractical (to me at least), but I suppose better than nothing.

Does this work while using lance charge? I assumed it would but would like to know before I begin working on lances and waste money for no reason on the shield of avon

I'm pretty positive Charge ≠ Lance Charge, despite sharing the same cooldown.

No it does not

This has been gnawing at me for a while. Do Marionettes use the current protection (that really really weird curve; 25 Prot = 31% damage reduction) or the pre-Enlightenment one (25 Prot = 25% damage reduction)?

http://i.imgur.com/STI4cEK.png
What's this?

Looks like leftovers from some event...I'm not quite sure what it is. Since you're on the Tarlach server, or so your user page says, it could be a past event that happened. was this recent?

It was on an alternative character which I didn't check for a while, so I'm not sure whether it was recent or not.

My search came up empty on this "Halloween World" event.

I don't think "Halloween World" is an event itself.