User talk:Info

Various Edits

Sometimes I get the feeling that you make edits for the sake of editing. Or maybe I'm just imagining things. Tellos 14:23, 28 November 2010 (PST)

Is that bad...? Infodude575 17:27, 1 December 2010 (PST)

This wiki exists to record all data for the mabinogi game. If a page is complete and without error, then editing it further is pointless. If you question the wording or logic of a page you can discuss it in a talk page. Tellos 17:33, 1 December 2010 (PST)

...why wouldn't guides have spoilers? That's why they're guides... And why else would there be a giant spoiler banner at the top of the page? --κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 17:42, 1 December 2010 (PST)

Because Admins say so. Also, G1, G2, G3, G7, G9, G10, G11, and G12 have the banner, but theres no content that reveals the plot. Infodude575 16:44, 2 December 2010 (PST)

You know Ikkisuki is an admin right? Tellos 16:46, 2 December 2010 (PST)

Perhaps... then you might be a hypocrite. Remember the "incident" with the editing on G1 page? Infodude575 16:53, 2 December 2010 (PST)

I don't recall doing anything to the G1 page, also there is no hypocrasy. Perhaps you are suggesting I'm a liar? Blue link = page, red link = no page, Gold link = Admin user page. Tellos 17:45, 2 December 2010 (PST)

See here then. Your fellow Admins say its not allowed. Infodude575 19:25, 2 December 2010 (PST)

I agree with the no-content-spoilers rule, my main reason for using the wiki mainstream guide is because it just only tells you How, but not What and Why (the real spoilers), which i want to figure out myself. Addressing the storyline in the mainstream articles should be sparingly used, and only when it helps with describing the How.--Hengsheng120·^TALK_CONTRIBS 21:59, 2 December 2010 (PST)

What server do you play in?

Hi, which server do you play in?--Hengsheng120·^TALK_CONTRIBS 06:13, 3 February 2011 (PST)

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Shamala&action=history

Don't readd things decepticons remove, period. Most of the time they're doing things on my direct instruction. If you have issues, you're only allowed to bring it up as a discussion, not revert their edits.

Bread from nao is seriously useless information and is just excess clutter that no one wants to see. Yes *you* want to see it, yes pyro wants to see it, yes there are a couple others who want to see it. But surprise, surprise, the vast majority don't care about obscure details.

I'm sorry if it seems totalitarian, but the wiki needs a good cleaning from the vapid spew left by the few loudest, previously unchecked contributors. Once things are clean it will probably be less totalitarian.

Any particular reason this page was moved to a subpage? We hardly use subpages except for user pages in the first place.

Well, its part of the skill isn't it? Also no one seemed to mind with Puppet's Snare/Unsnareable Monsters List.

Wait...was I not suppose to move and delete it? I saw the request while browsing changes o-o;

It was supposed to be deleted because it had lowercase in it, and that interferes with the auto correct in the search.

*Shrugs* Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

If you want to change it back, that's fine.

I don't have a strong opinion either way. It just seems odd that we're using subpages suddenly.

Well...on a technical basis, Talent has several subpages tagged to it, but that's just cut down on the page size though. Course, there's that stupid "too many transclusions" error sooo yeah.

I think the start of it all was Commerce.

Or quest transclusion. I don't see why not transclude, especially transcluding lists.

Would you kindly point out where it is established that attacking Cremena is "abusable" and should not be mentioned as a viable way to train meteor strike?

Erm, I think it was somewhere in Talk:Meteor Strike, or its edit history, or somehow it just popped into my head... I don't remember.

However, before we make hasty movements, lets talk about whether we should put it back in or not. Even though its minor, it can be abused to some extent.

Crumena is a dragon/field boss. Crumena can be accessed in G8 final. G8 final can be repeated if it is not finished. Using these facts and basic logic, you can easily figure out that Crumena is the easiest way to access a dragon if you have access to G8 final. I don't remember anything mentioning that using Crumena as a target was "abuse". In fact, if it was considered abuse, why would devCat even allow it as a target for meteor training in the first place? You'd think they built a list of monsters that count rather than a list of monsters that don't count.

How do we know that Crumena was meant to be a trainable target? The Saga: Iria dragons aren't trainable targets for who knows why (I have no idea about the one in Aces).

It's impossible to know the developers' intentions. However, I still stand by my opinion that it is not abuse. The Saga dragons are the only dragons that don't count and probably the only reason why is because they can't actually be defeated in a story battle, making them count as NPCs rather than bosses or dragons.

Mm, I would say that they probably didn't want to make it easy to train. But that's just baseless conjecture on my part, so I'll concede.

Baseless conjecture... Man. I don't even...

Go away. Your useless comment and bump annoys me.

Don't worry; I'm leaving. Your aura of stupidity is quite repulsive on its own.

I too think that it's not really abuse. It's just another training method and it's not confirmed if it's even a glitch. And MAYBE, just MAYBE Crumena counts because he has the Meteor Skill.

I don't even think G8 Finale spam is considered abuse considering the little amount of access people have with that. Not to mention the sheer difficulty of going alone (I mean, I can solo it, but that's me 8D).

Well, a countermeasure was put for Jenna's 100% repair which "little amount of access people have with"...

Well played....well played.

If they have time to patch Jenna in case of a 100% repair event that rarely ever happens, but they don't have the time to patch Crumena to not count for Meteor Strike training. Then something is wrong with their priorities. Or Crumena counting as training isn't abuse.

I fail to see how it could be considered abuse. I've yet to see anyone with a party up looking for g8 final just for training purposes, and even I were to suddenly see a cluster of party ads for that, the cooldown on meteor would still make it a time-consuming process.

Field dragons don't spawn every 30 minutes. Crumena, you can just enter once the cooldown goes away.

“	-blah blah- 30 minutes. -blah blah- once the cooldown goes away	„

Just going to throw a few numbers out.

Assumptions

• you're using magic/druid talent
• you've completed all other training requirements (which would also take a few hours)
• Crumena doesn't troll your ass by flying up during that 5 second period before impact
• you are on g8 final

Just for the smack a dragon training requirement, getting to the next rank/getting the master title would take a minimum of:

• 4 hours at r3
• 5 hours at r2
• 75 hours for master title

Sooo, with all that in mind...do you still think it can possibly be seen as "abusable"?

He's already conceded when he re-added Crumena to the training tips section. We don't really need to continue discussions about this.

Oh, skipped that entire part when I saw the whole info-kevin thing starting up (as usual) lol.

Not to mention the fact that it's 5 against 1. All I can say is that I'm practically outnumbered and overruled.

I've been gone the past few days, and yes the immediate issue has been resolved as Blargel has pointed out. I do agree with the outcome, but I do not think this discussion is over in the sake of future potential abuses, would like to provide a dissent. What I am talking about is the method by which a few of you have used to determine if something is or is not an abuse. Just because a method isn't used, or isn't as useful as another abuse method or a nonabusive method should not change or determine whether or not something is or is not an abuse, in my opinion at least. It should not be based on if its practical or not to perform the "abuse", rather, it should be based on:

• A: Whether it was stated if it was or was not intended (such as the shyllien and hillwen wallers, in which Mabinogi JP [although never DevCAT, NA, or KR] explicitly said this was not allowed and they would begin banning those caught, though to my knowledge this ban spree was never enforced in NA). In such cases, sources would be preferred.
• B: If there was no official comment on it, there really is no way to figure out whether it was intended or not intended. That being said, this may seem problematic, but we should vote whether or not we as players in our own personal opinion, which is not relevant to what the developer believes, thinks it is an abuse or not, only after long discussion.

With the ability to revisit decisions made by either method. After re-reading my point B, I do feel wary of it, but I am solid on A. Even if A and B are crap, the method used earlier in this thread still really needs to be redone.

Anyone agree or disagree?

I mostly agree, and yes we probably should have some sort of system in place to determine whether something is considered abuse or not. Let me bring this up with the rest of the staff to see how we should deal with this in the future.

Do you have to make them sound so similar than they were before?

Clean up ≠ reconstructing what was there before with added changes.

That aside, sometimes it is better to simplify, rather than make large comparisons/lists to confuse players reading the guide/walkthrough/whatever. The last thing you want is extraneous information hiding the original intention of a simple guide to help players.

I'm sorry, but I'm trying to avoid that too? Maybe its because I was still editing while you ninja'd me?

I somewhat disagree with the removal of the mention of G1 Glas. Considering the fact that you have to do G1 now before 9, naturally one would remember fighting Glas; "I've killed you once before and I can kill you again." Except Glas responds with "Haha! I have new tricks up my sleeve! I replaced my Gargoyles with Crag Cows who don't drop Goddess crap. Me not E-Z this time!"

I guess, but there's plenty of other differences (which seems apparent according to the monster data).

Also, double check before doing a mass page edit, as I tend to do section by section consecutively.

To be fair, sure, a lot of us are really harsh. Though, as several of us have told you that you walk right into it. If you want the respect that some people feel you deserve, that's perfectly fine. But if you want that respect, you need to show this site with respect, too. There were several accounts where people here have had to fix, test, clean up, or just plain do a complete run-around on pages that you have made mistakes on or goofed up. There were several times you have put something down that was not true and it had to be fixed or tested or confirmed by someone else. With that being said, putting information here is a big deal considering it is a resource for players. When given this position, most of the things told is -common knowledge-. Not just for me, but pretty much for everyone. When people come to use this site or find information, it to them is a fact, and when it isn't tested or correctly put in, players get upset and then blame the wiki as a whole. I remember years back, a user got upset because he found wrong information here and decided it would be funny to create an account, and put invalid information on the silliest pages and vandalize. He was later banned for this. If you want people to be nice, which will probably be a while; please- think before you speak, make edits, and put up information. Test out what you think of before even entering it here. Go into game, find what you are looking for, if it's fishing related, test it, if it's dungeon related, test it. Make sure what you are putting down makes sense, or else it's going to be really tiresome fixing it. That should probably sum it up. Just be careful with what you post, and people might just be less likely to nit-pick at you as often. With the exception of Kevin. ;w;

I'd rather respond to this privately. Lets have a nice long chat about this on the IRC with tea, cookies, and cream, how about it?

“	With the exception of Kevin. ;w;	„

-thumbs up-

I know this is a really delayed response to this but a while ago you removed something I added to the Fusion Magic page about ego wands. I'm not sure I understand what you put as a reason for removing it but my post was accurate. You can indeed use a ego wand if it is a Crown ice wand to help someone get fusion bolt, even if it has more than a level 6 social level. I used my social level 29 ego crown ice wand 3 days ago to help a friend get it. I would change it back myself but I'm not sure how to do it and don't want to mess with the page. Could you change it back?

o - o All Spirit Wands can get chain casting.

"This does not apply to Spirit Weapons made with advanced wands like the Crown Ice Wand because they can not get chain casting." This sort of makes it sound like as if Adv wands cannot get any sort of chain casting. Which is why I think infodude took it out, because i was slightly confused looking at it as well.

"This sort of makes it sound like as if Adv wands cannot get any sort of chain casting." They can't.

If adv spirit wands can get chain casting at soc lvl 6+ then why did my wand at soc lvl 28 not have it? In fact, right on this wiki's very own page for spirit weapons adv wands aren't listed as being able to get chain casting. Only the basic fire ice and lightning wands are.

If you test it again and it works don't be afraid to replace the information. Doubting a fact is not sufficient reason for deleting it without verification. Certainly always try your best to make the thought as clear as possible.

I am 100% certain that they do not get chain casting. I had that ego crown ice wand for almost 2 years and was nearly constantly harassed by my former guild mates for choosing it because they all said it was pointless to ego a wand that "Didn't have CC".

So wait, its ONLY Fire Wand, Ice Wand, and Lightning Wand, and nothing else?

While the information I posted is accurate I went and reread the Magic Fusion page and saw

" must not be a Spirit Weapon Fire Wand, Ice Wand, or Lightning Wand".

Which, back when I made the edit I assumed it meant all wands that were of those elements. Now I understand it was talking about only those 3 wands, making my addition redundant and unnecessary. It is that part of the page that seems to have lead so many people to be confused so maybe the wording of it needs to be revised somehow.

I guess its also the spirit weapon page's fault for not mentioning that either.

Second Generation wands (The speed ones) do not have chain casting.

From spirit social? You're not confusing with normal upgrades are you?

They can not get Chain Casting by upgrades or by spirit social level.

Not that I recall. Granted, I never had a second generation wand, but I did recall several players in JP's servers did not have chain casting on theirs. course things change, so who knows.

Just to add to this, I knew second tier wands cannot get chaincasting, but does this apply to Dittes Lightning Wand? That was added long before the more recent ones that cannot chaincast.

Dittes is a first gen wand ego.

So it should chaincast lightning bolt? Have we ever tested this?

I recall my friend had one and faintly remember it does have Chaincasting.

As im sure you know, i added the info about the cursed labyrinth, but i didnt really know how to properly format it, so i did my best. Thank you for reformatting it in a more streamlined manner.

Oh? You're simply going to remove the entire tidbit rather than adjusting it to be correct?

“	I'm guessing "Overdrive" was their way of saying "Running Boost".	„
—Kevin

And despite what you said, you take it out and say I'm wrong...

Que? What's there to correct??????????

rspnd plzzzz. Q_Q

You said I'm wrong, what's right that justifies the removal?

Nexon said the word Overdrive, officially. Engine Shock exists in the game's code, and it can only be tied to the one new skill introduced with the Scooter. We use all sorts of terminology, correct?

Hm... maybe it was correct before you changed it... I wonder if that could have even been poss-- wait of course.

“	Nexon said the word Overdrive, officially.	„

You trust them too much. Not to mention, their info is not derived from the data.

“	Engine Shock exists in the game's code	„

And Dual Gun Mastery is an active skill, but whoopie-doo, what do you care?

“	You trust them too much. Not to mention, their info is not derived from the data.	„

It doesn't change the fact that they said it.

“	And Dual Gun Mastery is an active skill, but whoopie-doo, what do you care?	„

What does Dual Gun Mastery have to do with this?

“	It doesn't change the fact that they said it.	„

There's also a lot of other things they've said that were clearly wrong... I guess it's all correct now.

“	What does Dual Gun Mastery have to do with this?	„

Because we're apparently allowed to make up some info and not others. Apparently, the judge of that is you.

“	There's also a lot of other things they've said that were clearly wrong... I guess it's all correct now.	„

I never said that, and that has nothing to do with this.

Take a look at Assault Slash for example. Nexon named it many times before settling it on one, and we recorded all the names in Trivia.

“	Because we're apparently allowed to make up some info and not others. Apparently, the judge of that is you.	„

Me, making up information? What did I make up?

“	Take a look at Assault Slash for example. Nexon named it many times before settling it on one, and we recorded all the names in Trivia.	„

“	we	„

There's a big error in that statement.

“	I never said that, and that has nothing to do with this.	„

But apparently anything that Nexon says is official and must be correct!

“	Me, making up information? What did I make up?	„

I thought bringing up dual gun mastery was a big enough hint, but clearly not.

Yes 'we'. Pyrus contributed to it as well.

I never said anything about official meaning correct. You brought it in here.

I'm sorry, but I don't see what's made-up in there.

• Splash damage commonly occurs from normal attacks.
• Intuition intercepts normal attacks.
• Normal attacks intercept smash, and I believe Trefor says it in the tutorial. I've been hit several times while charging and my marionette's been hit while attempting Acts 1 and 2.
• Windmill is coded to automatically activate when being attacked with normal attacks or smash.
• Of all the times I sucker-punched an enemy, not once have I ever gotten normal attacked.

“	Yes 'we'. Pyrus contributed to it as well.	„

Good job, you missed the point. Not that I expected any more from you.

“	I never said anything about official meaning correct. You brought it in here.	„

So we're putting incorrect information on the wiki now? Please leave.

“	I'm sorry, but I don't see what's made-up in there.	„

Clearly you still don't know how the combat system works on Mabinogi. Please leave even farther.

Please don't get me involved in your arguments, I have other things to worry about.

Then care to explain your point rather than just saying I missed it?

I never said anything about incorrect information either, you brought this all in here. This has nothing to do with being right or wrong, this is accuracy, and a wise man once said "Accuracy comes in both being true to the game but also what is truly meant by what the game doesn't say or doesn't say well."

Oh really? Please explain the combat system to me and any newbie that comes on this wiki.

Sorry Pyrus, I didn't mean to summon you here.

“	Then care to explain your point rather than just saying I missed it?	„

You started that "trend". If it weren't for you, that line would not be there, and none of that other stupid shit would be on any other page either.

“	I never said anything about incorrect information either, you brought this all in here. This has nothing to do with being right or wrong, this is accuracy, and a wise man once said "Accuracy comes in both being true to the game but also what is truly meant by what the game doesn't say or doesn't say well."	„

...Accuracy in what sense? Copying the inaccurate?

In the context of the quote, that wasn't even in regards to text outside of the game -- it was in the game.

& I love how you quote Pyrus, despite his request to not be involved and after you "apologized".

“	Oh really? Please explain the combat system to me and any newbie that comes on this wiki.	„

...I have a feeling you didn't even read the edit before you reverted it.

"Stupid shit"? Explain to me what's wrong with noting different names. You realize a lot of other people have their own views on terminology, and Nexon even pointed out on Erinn Walker why they changed some names.

Explain to me how its inaccurate, considering the fact that its still one of Nexon's terminologies. I'm pretty sure the quote meant the website, too. Also, just because I quoted someone doesn't mean they're directly involved; from time to time everyone quotes a previous generation of humans, i.e. the dead; what can they do?

"this is not a skill. this is simply a shortcut for those who prefer mouseless-gameplay or easy skill canceling." - by your logic, wouldn't that mean Dual Gun Mastery is also a simple shortcut?

“	"Stupid shit"? Explain to me what's wrong with noting different names. You realize a lot of other people have their own views on terminology, and Nexon even pointed out on Erinn Walker why they changed some names.	„

And how exactly does that contribute toward the article?

I would see some sense made if they were redirects, but to simply list the different names they've had or have been called adds nothing to the article nor does it help anyone.

“	Explain to me how its inaccurate, considering the fact that its still one of Nexon's terminologies.	„

So are you saying it's now correct? Pick a side and stick to it!

“	"this is not a skill. this is simply a shortcut for those who prefer mouseless-gameplay or easy skill canceling." - by your logic, wouldn't that mean Dual Gun Mastery is also not a skill, but a simple shortcut?	„

...you might want to rethink that because, clearly, you have no idea what you're doing.

In fact, you might even want to step away from the word "logic", because you don't seem to know how to use it or what it is.

Contributes by pointing out that the skill, object, person, etc has a different name. Back then, all skills displayed two names, and those with a different name also had that shown.
If you plan to redirect and leave no explanation as to why a few words link to a page, that's going to cause a lot of confusion.

Tell me, where did the word "correct" come from that sentence?

What am I not getting? You're being too vague again.

“	Back then, all skills displayed two names, and those with a different name also had that shown.	„

Better start filling out the wiki with old, obsolete information!

“	If you plan to redirect and leave no explanation as to why a few words link to a page, that's going to cause a lot of confusion.	„

Better start making explanations to every redirect on this wiki, because you have no idea what the redirect means (oddly, no one else seems to be having that problem. It's probably because of their abundance of common sense. Damn common sense, am I right?).

“	Tell me, where did the word "correct" come from that sentence?	„

...You know what accuracy is, right?

“	What am I not getting? You're being too vague again.	„

You're helpless...

Its been done, archived pages. Also, multiple names occur in the NA server; Assault Slash was called Crash Slash in an enchant, and Master Tin calls Shooting Rush as Gun Bullet.

And you're not helping. You're avoiding the question.

I'm tired of this argument >.>

“	Its been done, archived pages.	„

Yes, but they're archive pages.

“	Also, multiple names occur in the NA server; Assault Slash was called Crash Slash in an enchant, and Master Tin calls Shooting Rush as Gun Bullet.	„

Yes. They're in-game (and "bullet" was clearly a typo, but since it's been said, it's official and must be correct!). Not out-game.

Don't forget about all of these. They need to be added to their respective articles, too.

“	...You know what accuracy is, right?	„

Before you submit, I'd still like to know the answer to this question. And in addition, "logic".

Sigh...

• Accuracy - Precision.
• Logic - Valid reasoning.

...

You get half a point for logic, but none for accuracy.

Accuracy does not necessarily mean precision. And you're missing a pretty big chunk of the rest of the definition *cough*correct*cough*.

Fancy quoting all around. I remember when Argus's name changed between Argus and Argos several times lol. Thankfully, both names get me to the page I'd want to get to. *off topic and totally unneeded?*

“	Wands lose 0.001 ~ 0.030 durability when used with a melee attack.	„

Have you verified that or are you just assuming because everything else is 0.001 ~ 0.030?

“	Wands appear to lose durability at the same averaged rate as melee weapons, .01 to .03 when unblessed.	„

Thread:Talk:Durability/Wand_durability_with_melee.

“	I don't think its part of the event, its just to describe the purpose of potions and repair sets.	„

Have you tested it on a new character to see if you can still do it? If not, can you try?

Hm, I don't like starting new characters...

Have you ever gone Puppeteer Talent before? If not, you should get the quest.

“	**Magic Damage's formula has been revised into: Base Skill Damage + (Magic Attack x Skill Bonus)	„

What was this source because the mabination team does not seem to find this anywhere, please give an exact link if possible.

Here.

Magic Dmg Formula: Base Skill Dmg + Magic Atk x Skill Bonus = Final Damage

http://mabidata.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1621&start=10#p14844

Oh, so that was the wrong formula or...?

Oversimplified version.

What was the supposed revised formula then...?

Exactly, nobody knows yet, not even KR websites. Like how nobody knew the recipe of white dragon wine until the master chef update.

“	*P.S. a lot of the data WILL change.	„
—the problem with adding future content

Has this ever actually happened before...? Aside from the already mentioned Pioneers of Iria and The Uncharted Lands.

What does bundling updates have to do with this? And EU also got G13 and G15 together, and we got G14S5 and G15 together.

Pioneers of Iria had stuff that was included in the individual patches that wasn't released till G7 or 8.

Again, what does that have to do with this? We're not discussing getting things early or late.

Early/Late implementations have a tendency to mess up existing updates. DFO had a similar issue and it had to undo it a patch, and then re-implement it later.

Ya but why are we talking about late/early patches?

I dunno, I only just saw the recent changes and saw that come up...

But yes, updates can be changed to be completely different. Original G13 had Dual Wield Mastery, Shield Mastery, Wand Mastery, Staff Mastery, it had a class system where certain destinies could not use certain skills, and other destinies can use certain skills but not train or rank them.

“	Are the previous parts even out in KR yet?	„

Yes they are, unfortunately, 90% of updates skip KR test completely and once every few months or so KR test updates to catch up with KR live. Every few months, when there is a major update, it goes to KR test before KR live and they remove all characters, banks, etc. So far, Druid, Diva, Vate, Master Chef, Treasure Hunter, none of those updates have been worthy enough to be test-first. KR test is at the Vate update at the time of writing this.

"G18EP10"
Who actually uses those terms? Much less in the search bar.

Mikaya made "G18EP1", "G18EP2", etc etc.

At the time, I wasn't aware of that silly Chapter 5 thread...so I assumed, like everyone else, it was G18EPx

I do. Especially in search bar.

"Episode x" is a much more commonly used term.

g18epx takes fewer keystrokes

EPx then?

Episode x, EPx, Ex. Until now I have never seen anyone call them G18Ex or G18EPx, everyone just writes it out completely or shortens it more than that.

We can't be sure Nexon won't reset the episode counter the next time there's an update like Saga.

As I said, we'd worry about that when/if that happens.

And until/unless we get confirmation that it won't happen, there's nothing wrong with leaving those g118epx redirects.

I never asked to remove them, I'm just asking what's the point considering G18EP1 had like under 10 views and in my experience isn't that common of a term.

• cough*redirects don't increase pagecount unless viewed without redirecting*cough*

Then what's the previous deletion markings based on "Unused Redirect" if we cannot event tell who views it? (And it wasn't stupid redirects either.)

"+ *'''[[Beauty Shop]]:''' **A search function has been added. **The [[Hawaiian Swimsuit Set]] and [[Hummingbird Wings]] have been added to the shop"

?

Wasn't that supposed to be in Dream Part 1, which was included in The Enlightenment? If its not there, I guess I was being too careless with coypasting...

We only got part of Dream, we didn't get all of it. And personally, I don't even think that should be in Dream section. I mean, the beauty shop doesn't exist by the time dream update comes out, it gets replaced with the dressroom. (And Beauty Shop is treated as an event shop in other servers, with temporary cash items bought with pons.)

“	That's Morrighan? I never knew that.	„

She got a redesign when G1 was released. (Most of these pics are from Lorna and Pan, an SOME of these models can be found in data. Most were replaced though.)

• [1]
• [2]

That's her? According to Dungeon Altar#Trivia, you said that it's an unknown goddess.

Well, technically we don't know for sure if they're the same person but almost all references to her have been replaced besides minor things. Like that statue in dunbarton, the images on the sides of the church in dunbarton and tir chonaill, that last picture in The Goddess Who Turned into Stone. I don't know how I know this but I recall her name being mentioned somewhere as Shiela, the same name as More's wife. (Don't add that anywhere because I have no proof.) It is possible that that is Lymilark, since it is the church of Lymilark. But Lymilark is described as having no gender. And Morrighan is not worshiped in Erinn like she is in Vindictus or anything.

"Left, not right. Also isn't that gauge part of Elemental Wave or something? Personally, I think most of the things here are TMI and should be moved to the GC page"
The gauge itself isn't unlocked until you have Elemental Wave, but it is its own feature, separate from Elemental Wave. It's like saying Talents does not deserve its own page because that's stats.

I tested to see if you only get 30k gold and 25 ap coupons from doing it once a day instead of completing the episode for the first time. I went on my alt to play episode 1 and 2 (on the same day) and found out that you do in fact get 30k gold and 25 ap coupons instead of just 12 ap coupons as a fixed reward. Are you certain that players only receive 12 ap coupons all the time?

Was the episode you did highlighted?

When I did an un-highlighted Episode 10 by mistake, I only got 12 AP coupons and a saga viewing coupon, no gold or exp.

No. The first episode (episode 1) I did was the first one I did for the day so that counted as a daily. However, the second episode (episode 2) I completed was not highlighted but it was also my first time doing the episode (so I'd get a saga reward box anyway).

If its the first time, they may have changed it... I don't know, Nexon always gives short-hand details.

On my main I did episode 10 (this was about my 7th time doing it) as the daily and received 25 ap coupons and 30k gold as well as a saga viewing coupon. Did you do the episode recently, like when Nexon added the patch?

Yes, right after the patch. It wasn't the bonus, and I didn't get any gold nor 13 extra ap coupons.

Strange. Do you think you can test it again today?

Sadly not today, because all of them are highlighted.

My understanding is that the daily bonus is connected to getting Saga EP# Box, not doing it for the first time a day. I can get two bonuses on one day (after daily reset) if I do an episode between midnight and 7:00 AM and another one after 7:00 AM (that's when boxes reset and dailies light up again). That would explain why you could get another bonus if the episode wasn't highlighted - you got the box anyway (that or you ended episode 2 after "reset" on 7:00 AM, but if my theory is valid, it shouldn't matter anyway).

I probably worded what I said weirdly. By highlighted I thought you meant when gold letters appeared on the episode list. Yes, the daily bonus is connected to getting the saga ep box but to my understanding you only get the ep box if you 1) first time doing the episode 2) first time doing it after the 7am pst reset time.

What I want to know is why infodude get 12 ap coupons from the saga reward box instead of 30k gold and 25 ap coupons.

Hello. This is just a suggestion, but I've noticed from a few of your edits that they contain excessive amounts of information on one topic. There shouldn't be a paragraph in detail of every move a player has to make. Too much trivial information may confuse people.

Thanks for reading.

Flash Launcher has a kick in it, so it's technically melee, whereas Grapple Shot's just pulling and shooting.

Infodude, may I have your skype if you have one? I want to speak to you.

Um, I don't have skype, what is that you require?

What IM do you have?

I don't have any IM.

How about we just go to the M-World Forums and PM each other?

Ingame name/server?

Exactly why do you need to contact me? What's this about?

It's something personal, I'd understand if you don't want to share contact information with me.

Personal? I'm sorry, but this is kind of making me uncomfortable.

Okay then, forget this thread.

I was showing comparisons back to the original ones, the ones that are accurate. The first one is still the same, but the second mission follows Clues VII (7). Also, these missions are the tipping balance between Basic and Intermediate.

They rebalanced (more or less in a good or bad way...mostly bad) the mission and comparing two different missions to the renewal isn't exactly the best idea first off. Secondly, if a new player uses the wiki, they won't know what what's with conflicting edits and why is it comparing something that is no longer available. Although new and old players use the wiki, the wiki should be updated with the current and ongoing, rather compare something that is no longer available.