User talk:Daemonis

Re: Passing Thoughts

We would edit spawns patterns, but we let all the (unlazy) people (who don't kill everything before counting) do those :D --Fishstickys 14:47, 22 January 2011 (PST)

Hello.

You seemed to have created the Skull Mask page with the Obtained From stating that it was from the Maiz Prairie Legendary Artifact Chest. However, the description says it's from Karu Forest (and so did one other person who obtained this). Are you sure it wasn't in fact the Karu Forest Legendary Artifact Chest?

It was probably a copy paste error or something I mistyped. I definitely got it from Karu, not Maiz. Also, I got the Belt Loop from the Maiz Legendary one, so I have no idea how I screwed that up

All tests are timed using the windows clock. Lag effects are assumed to be negligible. Reaction and button pressing time assumed to be negligible. All times have an error of 1 second.
Control (everything is compared to this)
Test: 1032 INT, CC+4 Fire wand, no Vivace.

• Result: Fireball cast time is 18 seconds.

Effects of INT on cast time
Test 1: 0 INT(Via Potion Poisoning), CC+4 Fire wand, no Vivace.

• Result: Fireball cast time is 23 seconds.

Test 2: 1492 INT(INT roll, r1 Mind of Chaos + Claudius' Conspiracy), CC+4 Fire wand, no Vivace. (This is to make sure Potion Poisoning wasn't the thing slowing down my magic)

• Result: Fireball cast time is 17 seconds. (Damn. Well, that doesn't change the fact that my normal cast time is 18 seconds.)

Conclusion: Either Potion Poisoning increases cast time or Int really does reduce cast time. Someone with 500 or less int should test this. Also, if INT does boost cast speed, someone should try to graph it.
Ascertaining the right formula for wand cast speed boosts
Test: 1032 INT, +36% Phoenix fire wand, no Vivace.

• Result: Fireball cast time is 13 seconds.

Conclusion: This is closer to the result expected if the formula was (Base cast time)/(1+(Wand Speed boost)) rather than (Base cast time)*(1-(Wand speed boost))
Ascertaining the right formula for Vivace magic speed boost
Test 1: 1032 INT, CC+4 Fire wand, r1 Vivace + r1 Instrument Playing + Allegro non-upgraded Mandolin (12.98% vivace boost total)

• Result: Fireball cast time is 17 seconds. (Gah, I can't get any data from this.)

Test 2: 1032 INT, CC+4 Fire wand, r1 Excellent Vivace + r1 Instrument Playing + Allegro non-upgraded Mandolin (14.28% vivace boost total)

• Result: Fireball cast time is 16 seconds. (Dammit! Still inconclusive!)

Conclusion: Both (Base cast time)/(1+(Vivace boost)) and (Base cast time)*(1-(Vivace boost)) could account for these results. For the next test, I'll assume its the former.
Determining how wand upgrades and Vivace stack
Test 1: 1032 INT, +36% Cast speed Phoenix fire wand, r1 Vivace + r1 Instrument Playing + Allegro non-upgraded Mandolin (12.98% vivace boost total)

• Result: Fireball cast time is 13 seconds. (I noticed a small boost, practically negligible.)

Test 2: 1032 INT, +36% Cast speed Phoenix fire wand, r1 Vivace + r1 Instrument Playing + Allegro non-upgraded Mandolin (14.28% vivace boost total)

• Result: Fireball cast time is 12 seconds.

Conclusion: These results are inconclusive. It could support either (Base cast time)/(1+(Vivace boost)+(Wand Speed Boost)) or (Base cast time)/((1+(Vivace boost) * (1+Wand Speed Boost)). Someone with a better timer and more extreme vivace effects, please test this out.

Effects of potion poisoning
Test: 632 Int(Thanks, Belldandy517), CC+4 Fire wand, no Vivace.

• Result: Fireball cast time is 20 seconds.

Conclusion:Potion poisoning does not seem to directly affect cast time.

Effect of Magic Weapon Mastery
Test 1: 1500 int, CC+4 +20 magic attack Savage Fire Wand, no vivace

• Result: Fireball cast time is 15 seconds.

Test 2: 1500 int, +36% Phoenix Fire Wand, no vivace

• Result: Fireball cast time is 13 seconds.

Conclusion:What the...?
As of 14 Mar 2014, these numbers have not changed.

I'd like to note that the cast speed formula appears to have changed when Druid was implemented on our servers. I also heard rumors that it was going to change again when Diva is implemented so that reforges, cast speed upgrades, and vivace can all stack together properly. From my testing, vivace does not appear to affect cast times at all if you have a very high cast speed reforge.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll wait a bit before doing my testing then.
That being said, what do you mean by "All stack together properly"? Are some variables being ignored in equations or something?

Well my last sentence was supposed to clarify what I meant but upon rereading I guess that was pretty vague.

As far as I can tell, the game currently checks if the bonus from vivace or the bonus from reforges gives a faster cast speed and chooses accordingly. This means if you have a very high level speed cast reforge, the game will ignore any bonus from vivace. I tested this with a crown ice wand with speed cast level 20 though and the casting speed of icebolt and ice spear is very short in general (especially because I now have over 1200 int naturally) so it may have just been hard to detect a speed increase.

One of my mage friends mentioned that an update in Diva should make vivace + speed cast reforge more noticeable.

These tests attempt to ascertain Cost/Benefit of using Way of the Gun with various dual guns. Thus, all tests are done under the influence of Way of the Gun.
Dual guns used were a "high utility" Dowra SE and an R5 "Max Damage" Taunes MK3. Way of the Gun was R1 but the master title was not used. A clean Chinese Dragon Set was used for the Attack Speed+ status.
Note that these tests were only done once and are not controlled for latency, though no latency spikes were observed. Number of hits was measured by counting the number of critical hit messages in system chat.
For manual combat tests click rate was not assumed to be a limiting factor. Reserve attack was set to "Not Used".
Dowra SE
Test 1: Manual Combat, no Attack Speed+

• Counted 62 hits

Test 2: Manual Combat, Attack Speed+

• Counted 66 hits

Test 3: Automatic Combat, no Attack Speed+

• Counted 54 hits

Taunes MK3
Test 1: Manual Combat, no Attack Speed+

• Counted 59 hits

Test 2: Manual Combat, Attack Speed+

• Counted 64 hits

Test 3: Automatic Combat, no Attack Speed+

• Counted 51 hits

Conclusion: Taunes MK3 was only slightly slower than Dowra SE under these conditions. Also, Attack Speed+ had a noticeable effect, but again, not by much.
It is noted that all of these tests may be limited by lag. Redoing these tests with Nagle's Algorithm off and a low MTU may result in more appreciable differences.
Another line of tests to do would be to check vivace's effect on hit number.

From your tests, it looks like gun speed is only increased 10% with Attack speed Bonus, in wheres my test with melee weapons shoes a significant increase in attack speed...hmm...Anyways, yes, Vivace will stack with Way of the Gun and will directly influence firing speed. Taunes is still slower, but I would imagine more damage is done with taunes than with dowras. As far as attack speed goes, Dowras will always outfire Taunes, regardless of the amount of speed boosts Taunes has. The only instance is when taunes gets attack speed boost and dowra doesn't but outside of that, Dowras will outfire Taunes any day.

it could be that the boost from equips stacks additively with the WotG boost, resulting in 220%.

Please excuse my edit on your page. In an attempt to shorten the tabs template, I have optimized the usage of the template on your page. Visually and behaviorally, there will be no change.

What do you mean?

Well, I tried putting stuff like / and * and it totally screwed up on me.
I think there's some way to make it work, though at the moment I cannot recall it.

Odd, that shouldn't do anything. Did you have a pipe (|) inside the text?

I'm sure I didn't have a pipe.
However, I just tried using +, -, /, and * in the boxes again and they didn't screw up this time.
(several minutes later)
Ok, I was an idiot. How did I not guess the equality sign was screwing up those boxes?

“	The fastest you can cast fireball with decent music capacity(alone) and a +36% speed wand is 8.475s. The natural cast rate of fireball is 20 seconds. The phoenix fire wand with +36% speed from upgrades and a level 20 cast speed reforge is about 66% speed boost. r1 Vivace with an instrument with 36 music buff boost (11 instrument and 15 from r1 Playing and 10 playing boost reforge) and 20 magic speed buff reforge is 42.16% ((11 plus 20) times 1.36). 20 seconds multiplied by 1.66 then multiplied by 1.4216 is 8.475 seconds, compare this to the wand alone, which is 14.705 seconds, clearly there's some diminishing returns when you try to max out the speed.	„
—Daemonis, User:Daemonis

Not to crush your dreams or anything. But

• 1. Max casting speed wand upgrade = 40%
• 2. If casting speed upgrade reduces cast time why on earth would you increase the cast time? (20*1.66 > 20) (same goes for vivace casting time)
• 4. How on earth are you getting smaller products by multiplying by a number greater than 1...
• 3. Doing the math logically, it should be (original cast speed) * (1-casting speed reduction) = new casting speed.

Using the same formula that you did, the actual fireball casting speed should be

• 20*(1-(.4+.3)) = 20*.3 = 6
• 6*(1-.4216) = 3.4704

So in reality, you should be shooting fireballs like there's no tomorrow. (Assuming the correct formula is being used)

Oh oops. Thanks for checking my math. For #4, I was dividing, I just forgot to proofread.
Edit: Now I remember what happened. I made the assumption that the original cast speed is 100%. I treated increases to speed as adding onto that number. So a +40% speed wand would increase cast speed to 140%, or 1.4. After that, I took the inverse of that number to determine what percentage of the original cast time remains. I take that number, then multiply it by the unmodified cast time. It's a bit roundabout, yes, but it helps me to keep track of things. So what I have is

• 20/(1+(.4+.3)) = 20/1.7 = 11.765 (Way too many significant digits, yes.)
• 11.765/(1.4216) = 8.276

Using your formula, a wand with +36% cast speed (what I currently have on hand) should be

• 20*(1-0.36) = 20*0.64 = 12.8

With mine its

• 20/(1.36) = 14.705

Actually testing it results in 13 seconds, with an error of 1 second. I'd need more data to call it either way though. On a side note: Thanks for bringing to attention all of those assumptions. It's a fine night for a experiment.

Also, i lied 45% is max. :u didn't see lassar's upgrade. :u..

If 45% was max, I would cream my pants.

• Lassar's upgrade (15) + LEA 2 (4) + LEA 3 (5) + LEA 4 (6) + Stewart's upgrade (10) = +40%

oh yeah nvm i crazy

A new piece of information was added to int, for IS, Thunder, and FB.

Every 100 int = -2% cast time and -2% mp cost. So this increases it even further like by 10% in speed and mana reduction if you have 500 int.

What's the fastest, and most efficient fireball throwing setup can you get?

100 int = -2% cast time? that doesn't sound right. Check my experiments, it's the thread titled "Experiments on Fireball Cast Speed".
You'll see that there are a few data points that relate Int to cast time.
My hypothesis is that it actually follows a logarithmic curve, since 3 seconds are dropped going from 0 int to about 500 int, another 2 are dropped going from 500 to 1000, and 1 second is dropped going from 1000 to 1500. I also have a hunch that the mp cost reduction is simply due to the reduction in cast time, the mp drain over time as one casts stays the same.

Edit: It's not logarithmic apparently. The equation is Cast Time = Base Cast Time/(1 + Int/4000)

Now if you want the absolute fastest I could push the cast time to, I got 7.448 seconds. This is running through the calculations with my 18 second base cast time. I could probably push it to about 7 seconds at 1500 int.
As for most efficient, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, my calculations are a bit outdated, I had to guess at reforge maxes back when I was doing them.

Pretty much, the fastest time you can push it with the mp cost for the entire 5 charges. A way to tell is to time how fast mp is drained in a charge.

Sorry about that.

Thanks for fixing that. Forgot to add the values. :c

Thanks for filling in a lot of the gaps in my own data. It's about time somebody else competent came along and made significant contributions to that table. You wouldn't believe the wild nonsense some people have tried to tell me about Taming.

I hope you do realize putting the triple apostrophes around the monster indicates that they monster gives a 5 star rating in the journal, not that they're verified. I say this because you seem to be replacing most of the (?) with triple apostrophes.

Check the page. The only triple apostrophe I've added to the page today is the Scary Library "Ghost" entry. The rest are all double apostrophes.

Oh, my mistake. The diff makes the double apostrophes look like triples without closer inspection. My bad.

Yeah, quite frankly, I was afraid I'd put in triple apostrophes myself.