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Question and Answer/Archive4

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This is page 4 of an archive of questions asked on the wiki's Q&A page. It contains questions 76-100.

Q76

Fashion Gachapon and other limited Gachas

Q77

It should be about time I asked a question or two.. Anywho. So, regarding the monster drop list, sure, I understand the drops for Physis, Rano, and Connous are kinda obvious, they most likely will belong to a quest or two. Then.. what about Zardine and/or Courcle? They have no quest board, and the monsters there still drop...drops. How should the format be set up? I tried putting the Millipede Skin and Carnivorous Plant Stem into the StyleAnimalArtifact format, but that didn't seem to fit (yes I know I'm slow..) because there is (most likely) no exploration quest for them to belong in. Therefore no required exploration level, no reward gold, no reward exploration/character exp, no cost of the quest, etc. The Fomor scroll style doesn't seem to fit either, cuz I don't believe the drops from Zardine/Courcle are really used for a hunting quest or something (maybe a PTJ..?). They're just kinda there. But the StyleItemHeader/Footer thing doesn't seem to suit it either, because they are dropped by stuff, yet that template doesn't show what. Moral of the story: is it possible that we need to make a new template for the, basically, 'useless' drops? Or would we just have to live with the Fomor scroll style? Because that seems to fit it the most, apart from the fact that they aren't used for anything.--♫тιиα♪ταιқ♪ 15:38, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Use Template:StyleItemHeaderTop. Put the monster drop info in Method. If later they become part of a quest then just change style templates. See Firewood for an example. --ZRoc (Talk) 07:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Ahh, I see. Thanks *declares this question resolved*--αмуταιқ♪ 17:10, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Q78

Sadly, this applies to basically every single page. How should the "Description" be set up? Should they just be in italics on the top of the page, or in their own little header/section thing? I've been seeing both, and they seem to depend on the uh... type of page. Like, for equips, they seem to be in their own little heading, and in items, or at least the food items, they seem to be italicized at the top of the page (assuming that they do have a description present). So then... where should they go?--♫тιиα♪ταιқ♪ 15:38, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

See Q65 (if you can wade through all of it lol) but for now either use User:Angevon/Dagger or just use the existing different layouts for weapon and equipment pages until a final layout is agreed to. I think Angevon's Dagger example page is the best compromise and probably should be used but others may still have different ideas =3. --ZRoc (Talk) 03:45, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Imo, the TOC on the right would look better. :x --κєνıи тαıĸ«) 06:33, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Actually I wasn't really referring to weapons/equipments o-o... Like... On the monster drop pages, I believe (assuming that they aren't stubs, roflmao) that the "Description" is in its own little heading thing, but then on all the food pages (that I spent like 2 days trying to tidy up, by food pages, I mean all the good stuff in here.) the description is italicized on the top of the page.. Like, they're both items (food = items :D), but they have a different format. x:.... I'd like a little guide/table/list thing of what should look like what. While I was rummaging through those food pages, I also noticed that there were like 3 different templates. StyleMadeFoodHeader, StyleFoodTop/Header/Footer (for the in-consumable foods, or at least most of them), and... the uh...uh.. I know there's another one ==..... Anywho. Yea, so, erm.... Yea. o-o.. Everything seems to be caught up in the change from old to new.. Or maybe new to old. Idk.--♫тιиα♪ταιқ♪ 20:55, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Edit: Found it :D. I think its only on the noodle page (I didn't go through every page, just the ones that needed a bit of fixing, which.. was a lot.). The StyleInedibleFoodHeaderTop/Footer thing. Its weird cuz it doesn't use "Header". So.. StyleMadeFood(Header), StyleFood(Top/Header/Footer), and StyleInedibleFoodHeader(Top/Footer).--♫тιиα♪ταιқ♪ 22:30, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
From the noodle page's history it appears StyleInedibleFoodHeader is a test template by Angevon, created quite a while ago. If its only on the noodle page then I dont think she's going to use it. Ask her if you can change it back to one of the other two templates. As for the other two templates, I dont know what's going on with them and probably dont want to lol. In-game descriptions should be in italics to show they are different from the rest of the info, i.e., that info is quoted directly from the game and not created by a user from the wiki. If the description is created by a user then it should not be in italics. --ZRoc (Talk) 07:32, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
roflmao... Then what about the skill pages? I understand the translated stuff aren't in italics for a reason, but the actual stuff that has been implemented, well, would it even look good in italics? o.o--αмуταιқ♪ 12:34, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
An item description is usually the only in-game text that is intended to be quoted verbatim on this wiki, so there is no need to worry about skill pages. Although some of the info on skill pages may follow closely what is given in-game, it's usually incorporated with wording that is not. They have been edited to remove spelling mistakes and poor sentence structures. They have had extra info added that is not provided in any in-game text or had info added to make it more understandable. Info other than item descriptions can be a verbatim copy but this is not the intent while item descriptions are intended to be verbatim copies and are therefore in italics. Some of the item descriptions have had minor spelling corrections but I find it better if they are copied exactly as given in-game. --ZRoc (Talk) 14:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I have this little voice inside my head saying we're straying a bit from the question o.o;;... So lemme get this straight. Skill pages out of the question, equipment pages should have the description under their own little header, as shown in User:Angevon/Dagger, and... item pages, pages of items, should just have them on the top of the page..? (in italics for both). Majority of the pages seemingly cleared....what about the um....nevermind. :D--αмуταιқ♪ 20:47, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Q79

Probably unrelated to everything that is meant to be asked it but, does anyone have any info on Homemade Dyes or rather "Dyestuff"? On foreign servers, the people who I don't know which I can't really ask but it seems they have custom coloured armors and shields mostly that weren't meant to be. I've seen hetero, valencias, and pretty much everything else ranging from dark red to light purple throughout the whole rainbow. --Kaillera 02:03, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I havent heard of any special type of dye, even on foreign servers. Are you sure the custom colours they have aren't just a result of a lucky finish they got from blacksmithing? --ZephyreTALK 14:39, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
It's there trust me. It's not usable as it is though, so I don't know how to use it. I've seen people having them with their color scheme like pure black heteros, or a silver metal with green decoration pieces. --Kaillera 17:50, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
I could be just misunderstanding the question, as I tend to do that.. a lot, but couldn't they have just gotten lucky, like Zephyre said, or just use a fixed dye? I'm pretty sure they work on Light Hetero Shields (actually I'm not). Or it could've been blacksmithed/gacha-found, unless you know that it was dyed. That's all I can say, sorrys D:--αмуταιқ♪ 20:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Have you tried asking on the forum, you may get more answers there. This advice is coming from someone who has almost never used the forum, so follow it at your own risk. =3 --ZRoc (Talk) 00:27, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Oryt. This does seem more in-game-related than wiki-related. I have this little voice inside my head saying that there's more active people on the wiki, but like ZRoc, I don't really go on the forums. :D. I forgot my username once..heh. I wish you luck on finding the answer to your question~ :3~αмуταιқ♪ 20:35, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Q80

I Need Some Opinions

NPCs Categories

Q81

Recently, there have been problems with attendance at the giant field bosses, especially Red Dragon and Desert Dragon, at least on Tarlach. So in order to combat this, I've made Category:Giant Field Boss with some information about them that was never on the wiki before. So basically my question is, is it possible to get a link to this page put somewhere where people will actually find it? --Inemnitable 05:58, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry but what is important to one person is idle chatter to another. I like what you have done but why should your page be given more importance than say the page on hardmode dungeons or blacksmithing. Having said that, perhapes ask whoever is maintaining the Featured Article section, on the wiki's front page, to have it as the next topic? Otherwise, set up a thread on Nexon and/or Mabinogi World forums (or whatever other forum about Mabinogi that gets a lot of hits). --ZRoc (Talk) 16:45, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Not to miss the point, but blacksmithing and hardmode dungeons don't end up essentially hidden when one puts them in the proper place on the wiki. Furthermore, both these topics have links on the main page. Since the giant field bosses are essentially mabi's equivalent of high level raid bosses in other games, I really fail to see how the topic isn't important. And stop apologizing for things you're not sorry for (I get annoyed by stuff like that). --Inemnitable 18:58, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
There are minor exceptions (the only major one I guess would be the black panthers....things..? *leopards, idk.) such as the aardvark clan in Rano, but a LOT of the field bosses are Giants, and the ones on Uladh tend to spawn with their minions, but that's beside the point. So I'd suggest renaming the category. But Ima have to go with ZRoc. I don't see why this should be a category (I know he didn't really say this), seeing it as a page should be fine enough, with a list of the monsters at the bottom. I see where you're going, with the fact that you might as well put the info somewhere, but eh... Yea, that doesn't really "deserve" to be a category. And I'd like to question: regarding all the information you have on the page, is it true?--αмуταιқ♪ 20:41, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Actually, by the criteria I give, only the bosses I put in the category are "Giant" Field Bosses. If it doesn't drop an item for everyone who hits it, it isn't a Giant Field Boss, regardless of whether it says "Giant" in the name or not. So for example, Giant Short-Horned Gnu is just a normal field boss like any of the old Uladh ones. And yes, all the information is true. JPWiki has a huge page on the giant field bosses, if you don't believe me. --Inemnitable 06:58, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, look at the wiki's front page under "Speices", is that what you wanted (if the changes are not wanted I'll put them back as they were). Sorry but what annoys you is not what you wanted to discuss here and the way I decide to speak is my choice not yours =P Sorry but I think Category:Giant Field Boss should be a sub-category of Category:Field Boss. Sooooo sorry (I can be so childish XD) --ZRoc (Talk) 10:56, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I moved it into Category:Boss because continuously nesting things into subcategories annoys me. --- Angevon (Talk) 15:11, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

....I wonder how that was missed. Look buddy, tell me exactly how it's better off as a category than as a page. There are literally only 10 "giant field bosses" on that list. I have this little voice inside my head saying that 10 links aren't too hard to handle adding onto a new page. And maybe there could be a little message like "For other giant field bosses, go here." at the top. Oh man. *getting pepped up for an argument*--αмуταιқ♪ 21:43, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Edit: *at the top of each giant field boss's page, leading back to the list.
ZRoc:It was a sub-category of Category:Field Boss until Angevon moved it. And the link on the main page is great, though it should probably be unindented now that it's not a subcategory of Category:Field Boss; I'll just go ahead and do that. And just ignore my side comments. :P
Dramartistic: if you have a specific better idea of where to put this information so that people will see it, please share. For now I guess I'll just put a link back to the category on each page or in the MonsterData, as the situation requires. Already did this with the Dragon page before you suggested it anyway. --Inemnitable 02:30, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Oh man. You...are totally avoiding the question. How is it better off as a category than as a normal page?--αмуταιқ♪ 03:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Because at the bottom of the monster's page now it has "Category:Giant Field Boss" on it? I don't know. It's not really that important. There are plenty of other categories that also act as pages. Like, the hard mode dungeons don't really need their own category since there are only 3 of them, but there is a category for them. --- Angevon (Talk) 04:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Category pages are ideal for listing pages that belong to a general group, rather than using hard code to create individual links on a normal page. Having info on a category page (as Inemnitable has done) really shouldn't be a problem as the listed pages are seperate from the info. You can create a seperate normal page and move the info there but the category should still remain (and would need some info about what it's for). I don't think a seperate normal page should be created but if it really bothers you then it's a possible solution. --ZRoc (Talk) 06:32, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind.--αмуταιқ♪ 21:54, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Although I still think it should be a sub-category of Category:Field Boss however it's not worth annoying Angevon (considering how much I already abuse her generosity lol), so I'll shut up now and be quiet XD --ZRoc (Talk) 06:34, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Q82

Proposal for where items come from.

Q83

Is it really necessary to keep putting "Cannot be upgraded" in the limitations for gloves, robes, shoes, helmets? None can be upgraded, so continuously putting that there makes you think, wait are there some that can be upgraded? Also, anyone who has ever moused over their gloves etc. should have realized by now that it doesn't gain prof. --- Angevon (Talk) 22:24, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

NO. :D.... But you should put it somewhere, like maybe in the Gloves/Robes/Helmets/Shoes categories. But I think we should still keep the little tag for weapons and other supposedly upgradeable items that can't be upgraded. Like the Hooked Cutlass. (Actually, as I was typing this, I realize it doesn't even say that it can't be upgraded. *adds it in*)--αмуταιқ♪ 22:50, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Sure, un-upgradeable weapons should keep it. Similar question: would you mind if I remove the upgrades/sequences for clothing and armor and simply made a link to the page with thier upgrades? It would shorten the size of the page, in filesize and in length. The pages would load a little quicker. I doubt most people go to the clothing page for upgrades anyway. Like:

==Upgrades==

See Clothes Upgrades for a list of upgrades and sequences available.


--- Angevon (Talk) 19:55, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, with the tool upgrades, I like it, except its missing the Upgrade Sequences (and I like how the sequences are in that hidden..boxthing.) Does every clothe[s?] have the same upgrades..? If so, then yea. Why be so redundant..? o.o;--αмуταιқ♪ 20:19, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea regarding clothes and armor upgrades, as the upgrade sequences take up a lot of space and are mostly pretty similar, and there isn't even an obvious choice as to the best one. Another option might be to leave the upgrades themselves and just link for the sequences. Not sure if just doing something halfway is the best idea though. --Inemnitable 06:59, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Not having the "Cannot be upgraded" in the limitations may confuse a newcomer but as stated it may make them think some could be upgraded. As Angevon also stated, for gloves, robes, shoes and helmets they would find out pretty quick that they cannot be upgraded. I don't see a real problem in removing it from those items but you probably want some sort of guide page listing what should and shouldn't be added to items belonging to certain categories. Also, you should perhapes point new users to said guide page when they join, as well as point existing users to them, if you create it. --ZRoc (Talk) 13:37, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Where categories of items have the same upgrades and therefore upgrade sequences, having them listed on each item's page is redundant and adds unnecessary length to said pages. Linking to a single page containing those upgrades and upgrade sequences is a better way of doing it. --ZRoc (Talk) 13:42, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Well then, where should it go? I understand limitations are more fore races/gender, but I can only think of one other word that might work well, "Restrictions", but..iunno. Maybe a "Disclaimer" section? (lol..)--αмуταιқ♪ 20:43, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand what you are suggesting, Dramartistic. --- Angevon (Talk) 21:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Like... Well, I could be wrong (since I couldn't find anything that couldn't be upgraded that said so), but I think "Cannot be upgraded" would go under the "Limitations" section, but I thought the "Limitations" section would be more for race restrictions, and not for things regarding the weapon itself, such as not being able to be upgraded.... It's nothing, I'm just being stupid.--αмуταιқ♪ 22:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
I think you've got the wrong impression, though I could be wrong too. The Limitation is for any restriction that applies to an item. It is not only for race and gender restrictions but also if it cannot be upgraded, cannot be enchanted, is an ineffective weapon or shield, cannot be sold to an NPC, cannot be dropped, cannot be stored in a bank, etc. The race and gender restrictions are the most common and are displayed seperately on an items in-game mouse-over window, therefore they are usually the first to show up on an item's Limitations section on the wiki. They may also be the only restriction that applies to an item.
The question Angevon was asking, correct me if I'm wrong, was whether "Cannot be upgraded" should be listed in the Limitations section for items belonging to the Gloves, Robes, Shoes and Headgear categories. Note that, no item belonging to the Gloves, Robes, Shoes and Headgear categories can be upgraded (at least, not at the moment). So just stating on each of the Gloves, Robes, Shoes and Headgear category pages that items belonging to these categories cannot be upgraded should probably be enough.
Items that cannot be upgraded but belong to a category where other items can be upgraded (Shields, Weapons, Clothing/Armor, Instruments, Tools) will keep the "Cannot be upgraded" statement in their Limitations section. --ZRoc (Talk) 05:52, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh. I was referring to the Hooked Cutlass, because I couldn't come up with any other example off of the top of my head that would supposedly (most weapons can be upgraded, I think) be able to be upgraded, but was one of the rare cases that could not. And the second point (that probably wasn't too clear) was that I, personally, believed that "limitations" isn't really the right word... Or that there were at least better words out there that could probably make more sense.... Bleh.. Iunno. Heh... sorry, I have this tendency to stray off topic, so much that it makes people tend to wonder if I'm meaning to say it when/where I do. But yea, I understand Angevon's original proposal. Now that I think about it.... Do armors/clothings all have the same possible upgrades? (excluding the ones that can't be upgraded, of course).--Dяαмαятιѕтιс 's ταιқ 23:01, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Excluding those that cannot be upgraded, all heavy armor has the same set of upgrades, all light armor has the same set of upgrades and all clothing has tha same set of upgrades. However, some or all of the upgrades available for heavy armor may differ from those available to light armor which again may differ from those available to clothes. As for choosing another name for the Limitations section, if people want to do so then fine but I like Limitations =3 --ZRoc (Talk) 20:43, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
So for the clothes/heavy armors/light armors, there should just be a link to their respective upgrades page in the Upgrades section on the item's page? (if that makes any sense lol..). Hmm... So.... the equipments that can't be upgraded, like hats, gloves, shoes, robes, and various exceptions from the general type (like the Hooked Cutlass :D?), should just have "Cannot be upgraded." under the Limitations section, and not even bother to have an upgrade section at all? (This may seem like common sense..but you'd be surprised.)--Яειм 's Talk 21:09, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
For the Hooked Cutlass having Cannot be upgraded. in the Limitations section is needed as other swords can be upgraded. However, Angevon was asking if for whole categories where nothing can be upgraded (Headgear, Gloves, Shoes and Robes) then the Cannot be upgraded. limitation should be placed only on the Category:Headgear, Category:Gloves, Category:Shoes and Category:Robes pages rather than on the page of each item that belongs to these categories. --ZRoc (Talk) 21:48, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
And yes, I think that would be a good idea for the clothes/heavy armors/light armors, that is, just link to their respective upgrade pages. --ZRoc (Talk) 21:55, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

oic. Sorry for asking so many questions that stray from the topic question ^^;....--Яειм 's Talk 22:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Q84

Equipment subcategories.

Do you think it would be useful to have equipment subcategories based on race? Like "Category:Clothes for Giants" and in it would be all clothes that Giants can wear. Every clothing item will still be in Category:Clothes, of course. Basically since you can't tell which race can wear the item based on the item's name alone, Giant players can go to that category instead to see all the clothes they can wear (Giant is just an example, the same would be done for Human and Elf too.) I was also thinking of making this a hidden category so that we don't have sooo many cats listed on the bottom of the item pages.

Yes, I know people can go the the Equipment Lists and find race restrictions listed there, but this idea would be simple to implement (I'm volunteering) and easier to use (imo). Some of the list pages are a mess from all the race restrictions (mainly Gloves List) that it's kinda hard to even look at.

I plan to go through most equipment pages and cross-reference on JP Wiki for the Resell Value so I thought I'd kill a few more birds with one stone by asking these 3 questions and getting some page formatting done as well. ---Angevon (Talk) 22:24, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. I have no objections, except make sure that you don't miss a spot. Also, I can't say that the equipment lists are even up to date, so I guess you can also do that to. So, 1 vote for yes.--αмуταιқ♪ 22:41, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Sounds like a good idea to me. --Inemnitable 08:57, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it would be useful. --ZRoc (Talk) 13:26, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Q85

Props and misc. NPCs Categories?

Q86

Skill Summary Charts

Q87

Would anyone mind if I changed up the set-up for Gloves List so that it has a "restrictions" column more like Hats List. The racial and gender separations that we have now make the list look messy. If people like it the way it is I'll leave it alone though. --- Angevon (Talk) 02:30, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Do you intend to keep the tables seperated by race restrictions and use the restriction column for gender restrictions only? If the restriction column is for gender only (unisex, male only, female only) then it works really well as a list that can be sorted. In a single restricted race table, if the gloves are entered alphabetically but grouped as the 4 main types (by defense and protection), i.e., weaving gloves (0 and 0), light gloves (1 and 0), heavy gloves (1 and 1) and special gloves (>1 and/or >1), then people can use the sort button to see them by gender groups. For example, in a race table such as "Elf and Human Only", which has 3 of the glove types, the first group of gloves would be light gloves (from a to z), followed by heavy gloves (from a to z) and finally by special gloves (from a to z). However, in the "No Limitations" table ("No Race Limitations" would be clearer though) you would have the first group as weaving gloves (from a to z), followed by light gloves (from a to z) and finally by heavy gloves (from a to z). If the restriction column was to contain other limitations (cannot be dyed, cannot be repaired, etc.) then there would be no point in making it sortable. --ZRoc (Talk) 03:20, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
I was thinking one table with one column for "Race Restrictions" and one column for "Gender Restrictions". --- Angevon (Talk) 03:34, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Heh, that would work as well. It would be a long table but it would still be shorter than having it broken up into smaller tables on the same page, as it is now. No mucking about with table sub-headings, people can sort it by race or gender restriction and not such a mess to look at, seems like a good idea. --ZRoc (Talk) 06:55, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Here's the current look: User:Angevon/Gloves_List. Should I separate out Light, Heavy, and Weaving, and Special gloves into separate tables, or keep everything together? --- Angevon (Talk) 20:35, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
The example table you created looks good to me =3
I'm not sure about how many tables should be created. Maybe seperate the the Weaving Gloves and keep the rest in a single table, where the Light, Heavy and Special Gloves are grouped together, with each group in alphbetical order? If that makes the latter table too long then do make the 4 seperate tables you suggested. Considering more gloves will be added in future then those 4 tables would be easier to navigate than either 1 very long table (all Gloves) or 1 small table (Weaving Gloves) and 1 still very long table (Light, Heavy and Special Gloves). --ZRoc (Talk) 08:58, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay I think I'm done with it (User:Angevon/Gloves_List). I went with 4 sections. I removed defense and protection from the tables (except for Special Gloves) and put that info right under the appropriate section header. As you can see I pretty much followed the format ZRoc started in Q88. --- Angevon (Talk) 21:38, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I think it looks cool but I'm biased cause you used my format XD. Also, I think the 4 seperate tables is best after all and is certainly less messy than the race and gender seperated tables. --ZRoc (Talk) 10:42, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Q88

I have converted the Wands List to look like other weapon tables. However, I've also based it on my example table format which I suggested using in Q60 of Q&A and I would like to make these changes to other weapon list tables. Part of the changes in the Wand List and my example table were made to ensure things would sort correctly in columns, to tidy up the column headings and make the table easier to use. If you don't know how sorting works in a table then note that there are problems if letters are mixed in with numbers in a single cell on the table and its highly likely things wont sort numerically in a table's column containing that cell (Template:Fns allows the prices to be sorted numerically in the Cost column). To see an explanation of the changes go to Wands List table changes but it's a wall of text (that's why I didn't put it here lol).

The Wand List tables dont have the injury rates or upgrades columns because they are all 0~0% and 5, respectively. Instead the injury rates and upgrades for all wands is stated at the top of each table on the Wands List page. The Ranged Weapons List table would have seperate minimum and maximum injury rate columns and the upgrade column but would not have the "Sword Type and Race Availability" column that is in my example table (it's only called "Sword Type" in the real Swords List table). However, for most other weapons the injury rate range is always 0~0 and like the Wand List tables, I think the Injury columns should be removed. The only non-ranged weapon with non-zero injury stats is the Beholder's Sword (0~12%) and that can be refered to elsewhere on the Swords List page (as is done at the top of my example table). Besides the Swords List table, only the Blunt Weapons List would need a "Blunt Type and Race Availability" column added because for the ranged, knuckles, wands and cylinders lists that info is irrelevant. --ZRoc (Talk) 10:42, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

I like it. Never thought of putting the NPC salespeople with the price. Nice to see you're using the Fns template you've been working so hard on :) --- Angevon (Talk) 15:45, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Thank you XD. I'll wait a while and hopefully others will give an opinion. If no-one bothers then in a couple of days I'll start applying this to other weapon lists. --ZRoc (Talk) 20:33, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Q89

Proposed "Repair Costs" section template for items using Blacksmith Repairs.

So, as I'm formatting pages, I've noticed on JP Wiki that in the future we will have more repair rates for Blacksmith Repairs (a 96%, and 97%) and I was thinking maybe we could use a simple template for these repair sections. That way, when any new rates are implemented, only this template needs to be changed, and not all 300 or so equipment pages that use Blacksmith Repairs. The template'd is easy to use, just chug the numbers in and it's done.

User:Angevon/Blacksmith Repairs: the main template.
User:Angevon/Blacksmith_Repairs_Test: an example of its use (click edit on this to see the coding).

Thoughts, flames? --- Angevon (Talk) 22:00, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Flame, flame , flame... oh, hang on, I like it XD. That's a good idea and as the repairs are no longer part of the weapon info table then, for items that require another type of repair, a different repair table can easily be used. Maybe a template for the Tailor Repairs would also be a good idea, as lots of clothing, shoes, headgear, etc., use that type of repair. --ZRoc (Talk) 23:44, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Q90

Synthesis equipment list

Q91

Wiki_Home/WikiUpdates in relation to Mabinogi's server/channel statuses.

Q92

Okay, so ... some Alchemy Crystals are made from Mana Crystallization skill. I -really- don't feel like making a DeadEiry template on how to make the crystal (I'm talking about the dark gray/green/blue table thing on Iron Ingot). It's simply a mess to work with.

So, anyone got any ideas on how it should look? Right now on Barrier Spikes Crystal I just put it in a "Methods to Obtain" section like we're implementing for gears. Good idea or no? I don't believe any specific rank is required to make any of these crystals so the table there for it only has the required items listed for now. Kind of feels like a waste of a table. --- Angevon (Talk) 02:02, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

I think that's fine. o-o.. It's short and sweet, and gets the point across. A while ago (by a while, I mean like months ago), the DeadEiry thing seemed kinda cool, but now its just getting out of hand =\.... Like on Intelligence Modifiers, the table's messed up >_<, and I have NOOOO idea how to fix it =\--Яειм 's Talk 02:59, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
If there is only going to be a single column then make a bulleted list. The table is just a waste of extra coding and a bulleted list wont be any longer. For example;
=== Mana Crystallization ===
Materials required:
--ZRoc (Talk) 17:09, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
P.S. I would also suggest having the stack info as a seperate sentence in the Description section rather than as part of the image gallery table. That is, use "Can be stacked up to a maximum of 10." under the items in-game description. I know the inventory size and maximum stacking info seem related to the item as held in an inventory but the size is directly related whereas a dropped item is still a stack and it no longer looks like the inventory image. Besides the image gallery table looks weird with that info in it lol.
Also, as many inventory images are 50 wide x 82 height I would suggest using "width="50" height="82" bgcolor="#000000" | [[File:Inventory_Image.ext]]" for the inventory image in the image gallery table. This would make image gallery tables with only an inventory image look more consistent across the wiki as many inventory images are 50 x 82. Inventory images that are greater than those widths and heights will overide them but smaller images will have extra black surround them to make them appear to be a 50 x 82 image. The background color can be changed to match the images background color but almost all inventory images will have black backgrounds unless they are changed by some image editing software. Only very large items will exceed 50 x 82 (e.g., Fishing Rods) but they are few in number and 50 x 82 seems a good compromise.
See User:ZRoc/abs#Alchemy_Crystals_Example for an example of my suggestions. --ZRoc (Talk) 18:03, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Sure. It did look weird with the stack there. --- Angevon (Talk) 18:35, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Q93

Q.What template should I use for the Enchant Collection books? Not sure how to do those anyways. >>--Linkolin 05:03, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't think we have the mabibook links for them. --- Angevon (Talk) 20:39, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Q94

Tara Shadow Mission rewards

All shadow missions in Tara's castle have the same crystals as rewards (JP says so, it must be true! lol). I know templates aren't 'cool' anymore, but I made some anyway so that this crystal list is in one place, and any change to it will change the rewards section of all missions.

However, there are a lot of crystals on the list. See the Rewards section for Ghost of the Partholons. They take up quite a chunk of the rewards section. Would it be better to link to the page with all the crystals listed instead? Like

That way template use can be avoided altogether. Of course, I could just copy/paste the list on -every- mision page, but when someone makes a change to the list on one of the pages, someone else would have to go and change the list on every other page. I want to avoid that. --- Angevon (Talk) 20:20, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I've decided to go with the 2nd way to avoid messy transclusions. --- Angevon (Talk) 14:12, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Late reply (for obvious reasons lol) but I agree that the second method is better. It's simple and basically what linking is meant for. Templates can be useful but when there is such an easy solution what would be the point. Also, you save page size and remove a little bit of the load from the server doing it this way. --ZRoc (Talk) 17:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Q95 best way to deal with pages that have but still need pictures

If a page has some pictures, but either those pictures don't follow policy, or the page needs another picture, Should I make a subcategory in needpicture, or just add a comment next to the need picture tag? I'm tired of seeing(and sometimes participating in) edit wars over that kind of thing.--Sozen Cratos Focker 11:08, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I've been putting comments next to the category tag. I've only gone through clothing so far, though. --- Angevon (Talk) 15:49, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I've put comments next to Category:NeedMarket when only a resell price is missing (i.e., "resell price needed"), as people remove this category tag if the shop prices are obtained but the resell price hasn't. It's an easier way than creating more incomplete categories. --ZRoc (Talk) 17:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Q96

Are proficiency and UG# really necessary in the jewel upgrade charts?--Sozen Cratos Focker 00:25, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

As with headgear and other equipment that can't be upgraded, I think we agreed that the category pages for each equipment type would state that all items belonging to such a category can't be upgraded and that individual item pages would not have "Cannot be upgraded" in their Limitations sections. As all jewel upgrades appear to require proficiency be at 100% and have 0~0 for their upgrade number then I think stating that on a page or category about jewel upgrades and removing those columns from the jewel upgrade tables, on individual item pages, would make sense. However, I don't fully understand jewel upgrades (haven't used them in-game or dealt with them on the wiki) and therefore I could be missing something. --ZRoc (Talk) 12:55, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
There are a few things in-game that require less than 100 proficiency to do a jewel upgrade. For one, the Vales Great Shield. It has two Jewel upgrades, the first one having a choice between Auto-defense and something else, most likely +1~2 defense (I forgot). The first jewel upgrade for the +3.00% Auto-defense requires 65 Proficiency. The second jewel upgrade for something else (I forgot again) required 100 proficiency.
As for an answer to the question that ZRoc didn't ask, a jewel upgrade can only be done after an item has been upgraded completely (5 Upgrades). Although in-game, it reads "0~0", it actually means "Jewel Upgrade 0~0". In logical terms, jewel upgrades are only available as the 5~5 or 5~6 upgrades.--ZephyreTALK 06:33, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
I was missing something (as in my entire answer was wrong)! Thank you for the info, I hope that answers the original question. Still, a page explaining jewel upgrades in a little more detail than the section on the bottom of the Gems page might be helpful. --ZRoc (Talk) 07:19, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Q97

How does one go about uploading an mp3 file onto this wiki? I've looked around a lot, and by the looks of it, most wikis powered by MediaWiki allow media to be uploaded, be it .ogg or just plain .mp3. In the Upload page, it specifies that files can be linked as [[Media:File.ogg]] but the uploading of .ogg format is forbidden. I was thinking that adding a few sound files onto this wiki wouldn't be such a bad idea, for example town pages and NPC pages. An example of the sound box that I've been working on can be found here, where the "Agnes BGM" is the name of the media, and links to the upload, and the "File:Agnes BGM.ogg" will be replaced with a on/off toggle. Of course, I would love some feedback on this idea from fellow MWorld Wiki'ers. --ZephyreTALK 14:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't see the point of uploading mp3 files. The wiki is meant to provide information about playing the game and perhapes to keep a historical record of gameplay that has been superseded. An mp3 would use far more resources than say just text reciting the lyrics to a song and if there are no lyrics then there is no information in the music. Just uploading mp3 files, so others can listen to background music doesn't really seem worth the cost in resources. If there is a site with background music then perhapes add an external link to that site? Also, isn't there more risk that mp3 files could contain undesirable code, as compared to image files? --ZRoc (Talk) 09:06, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
You can upload music in flash form, swf or flv format and host it yourself to put on the page. Just follow the guide on my page for videos. Another words you need to convert mp3 into flash format and host it yourself (webhosting only) and put it on here. see this example.--Hengsheng120·TALKCONTRIBS 09:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Q98 access to Common.css

How would I gain access to edit Common.css? There are a lot of repeated style="..." in such places as table templates, width-compressed in-game book text, and so forth that ought to be made into class entries in the style sheet, so they can be brought in with class="..." declarations. Particularly in the case of the in-game book text, it would be much preferable to adjust things like the width of the book text, or the size of the book titles, by changing one line in the style sheet instead of every book article individually. I'd also like to do things like shade the backgrounds of the ideal types tables pink for women or blue for men without hardcoding the colors for each table individually. --Lionheart (Talk) 16 February 2010

Only admins can edit it, afaik. Try asking User:Ikkisuki to make the changes you want. I'd do it but I've never edited it before and wouldn't know what to do. --- Angevon (Talk) 20:49, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Q99

Mabbi added a drop location for Ice Spear page 2, noting that it is now obtainable through a shadow mission. Would someone please confirm/deny? Thanks. -- Jspillers | (Talk) 03:31, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

    • Edit Angevon added this when creating the page for the Grundal. I would still be interested to know if anyone in NA has seen this drop from the monster or not. -- Jspillers | (Talk) 03:38, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
  • I've experimented several times and I deny it drops frpm the pink Grumbil.

Q100

I've asked this on the Enchant talk page but doesn't seem to have been noticed so I'll ask on Q&A. I've created an Enchant Database based off/same as the one JPwiki has. It's still missing the G11 and G12 enchants but it should be mostly complete for the enchants up to G9. I was wondering if a link to the database could be placed somewhere like the Enchant category page? --Berkt 23:09, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

It looks good and I think a link in the Enchant category page would be helpful. However, I'm not an admin and at present this Q&A page doesn't seem to be used much, so you might want to ask an admin directly. --ZRoc (Talk) 02:57, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I think that link will be fine on the enchants category page. --- Angevon (Talk) 17:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)