Question and Answer/Archive4

This is page 4 of an archive of questions asked on the wiki's Q&A page. It contains questions 76-100.

Q76

Fashion Gachapon and other limited Gachas

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On the Gachapon page the old Fashion Gachapon (2012) items were deleted and the new Fashion Gachapon items are now in their place. However, items that came from the old Fashion Gachapon but are not obtained from the new Fashion Gachapon, now have links on their item pages (in "Obtained From" or whatever sections) which incorrectly go to the new Fashion Gachapon. Would it not have been better to have archived the old Fashion Gachapon list, perhapes on a page for old gachapons, as was done for events in Nexon Events (Old)? Also, despite what the Gachapon page says, limited time and discounted Gachapons are not events, the Gachapons are bought and not obtained as rewards. Unless of course you consider it a reward to spend your hard earned money every time you go shopping. --ZRoc (Talk) 05:15, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I say that we just sort it kinda like we did with the events, it = the fashion gachapon, hopefully not all the other ones. Or, just divide up the fashion gachapon heading into two sections, like the Iria treasure chest event page was at one point in time. Then it got split up into two different pages. So.. either 1 heading (section) with two parts, or just 2 headings (sections) would probably be a good idea. I mean, there isn't an archive for the treasure chest events, even though it did happen in the past (it's just in an "old events" category, not too good with keeping up-to-date with names). *is like patrolling the Q&A section~*--^♪♫_♪♫тιиα♪^♫♪_♫^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 20:38, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

That would work as well, it's a good idea. My problem is that when the old Fashion Gachapon was removed then some pages that linked to it were no longer correct. In fact some of those items are not available in the new Fashion Gachapon but do link to it, which can cause confusion. Also, even if those links are corrected that still means that information about where those items were possibly obtained from has one method missing. Removing a gachapon that is no longer available is not a problem in itself and was a reasonable thing to do but it was related to other pages on the wiki and for that reason I think it should be kept. Unless the server is running out of storage space, keeping such info for archiving and cross-reference purposes seems like a good idea to me. --ZRoc (Talk) 07:36, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully we'll know if the server is running out of space x:, like if there'll be a notice or something. I don't really understand the gacha pages. Like.. I don't get the "(gachapon)-only Items" part. As in.... Does it mean that you can't get it from any other gachapon, or does it mean you can't get it from any other source (NPCs and gachapon included, other players excluded, duh. Events....excluded?). Cuz in one case there was that blue rose bouquet, and it could be bought from Del/Delen (one of those flower-people..) one a certain day, and it was listed as a "(gachapon)-only Item" (I forgot which gachapon it was from ^^;...). So I, personally, stay away from them at all costs. :D Speaking of which, should we list that things can "be obtained" from events that are already done and over with? Like the treasure chest event thingys? I guess it just helps to know the fact that if you see someone with those equips, then it could be a possibility that they got it from an 'expired' event... Should there be a section on the item's page that goes by something like "Formerly Obtained By" or something? :D..???--^♪♫_♪♫тιиα♪^♫♪_♫^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 15:13, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

As far as I know thing listed in Soldier Gachapon-Only Items are those that can only be obtained from the Soldier Gachapon and nowhere else. Same applies to each of the other Gachapons that have this list. If later Nexon introduces another way of obtaining such an item then it no longer belongs in that list and is moved to its appropriate section elswhere in that gachapon's list.

Only the old and new Fashion Gachapons listed items with Rose in their name. The only flower items listed in the old Fashion Gachapon were;

• Purple Rose - except from the old Fashion Gachapon, a Purple Rose is not sold by any NPC or obtained by any other method. However, there is no item in the game that, besides a color, only uses Rose in its name, that is, we have (Blue) Rose Decoration, Single Rose and (Blue) Rose Bouquet.
• Purple Rose Decoration - Del sells Rose Decoration (which vary in color) and a specifically named Blue Rose Decoration but does not sell a specifically named Purple Rose Decoration. So, if this item exists then it was only obtained from the old Fashion Gachapon.
• Purple Rose Bouquet - Delen sells Rose Bouquet (which vary in color) and a specifically named Blue Rose Bouquet but does not sell a specifically named Purple Rose Bouquet. So, if this item exists then it was only obtained from the old and new Fashion Gachapon.

The only flower items listed in the new Fashion Gachapon were;

• Single Blue Rose - Delen sells Single Rose (which vary in color) but no specifically named color versions. So, if this item exists then it was only obtained from the new Fashion Gachapon.
• Single Purple Rose - see Single Blue Rose above.
• Purple Rose Bouquet - see Purple Rose Bouquet for the old Fashion Gachapon above.

Are the Rose items with Purple in their name actually the name of the items or has someone found purple colored versions and added Purple to their names?

Each event now has its own page and their start date and end date added to their names (see Category:Nexon Events), so on an item's page, in an "Obtained From" section just link the events name, e.g., Exploration Treasures Event (Sept. 2009). The dates show its expired and going to the events page will provide details about the event. Unfortunately, some earlier (probably only from 2008) events may not have had their info recorded and so no page may exist for them. --ZRoc (Talk) 15:12, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

AHAH..... I remember how long I spent trying to find the wiki page for the Purple Rose Decoration. I have seen one ingame (note, I say the rose decoration, I claim no witness over the bouquet one), and spent a long while attempting to find it. Hah....It's been a while since then though. The blue rose decoration is only sold on wednesdays, and the bouquet is only sold on Sundays.. or something. idk. (waitlol, other way around). I do believe we need a page on the purple rose decoration. I'll admit, I don't camp out by Del/Delen, but from what I can tell every so often when I go there, the colors get nowhere near the shade of blue/purple I've seen with their respective names. They're only various shades of red, orange, and yellow (moreso as like a "pure" red/various lighter shades than a darker shade. Darker/duller shades = looks like the flower is wilting. Wilting flowers = bad business). I don't know if this was really part of your question, but I can confirm that "Blue"/"Purple" is part of the corresponding name for the item.--^♪♫_♪♫тιиα♪^♫♪_♫^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 01:07, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Edit: I know I saw "purple", I know I searched for "purple", but as I glance at Ethna's page.... Is that a typo, or a totally different item? (Referring to the, non-existant page, of a "Violent Rose Bouquet")--^♪♫_♪♫тιиα♪^♫♪_♫^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 01:16, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

itemdb.english sez: there really is such an item as "Purple Rose Bouquet." There is also a "Single Purple Rose" and a "Purple Rose Decoration." There is no such thing as "Violent Rose Bouquet." Maybe Violent was an old fail translation Nexon had there for a while. So yes, they're real items. --- Angevon (Talk) 03:15, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I mean "Violet" ^^;..... Either way, its a fail translation :D?--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 21:19, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

A Violent Rose o.O Does it bite you if you try to pick it? XD --ZRoc (Talk) 08:05, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Back to the original question, there are items that were available from the old Fashion Gachapon that are not available in the new Fashion Gachapon (2012). I think the old Fashion Gachapon should be copied from the History of the Gachapon page and either placed back onto that page or placed on a page for Gachapons that are no longer available. Then the pages of items referring to the old Fashion Gachapon can still be linked to it and we have a historical list of what was available in previous iterations of a Gachapon. On a similar note, the Panda Gachapon should no longer be listed on the Gachapon page if the old Fashion Gachapon is not listed there as well. --ZRoc (Talk) 07:58, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Ahh now they're going to modify the soldier gachapon too. If you want to make a page for old gacha, go ahead. Starting the list completely from scratch seems to me the safest way to go when Nexon "updates" one. --- Angevon (Talk) 15:23, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Q77

It should be about time I asked a question or two.. Anywho. So, regarding the monster drop list, sure, I understand the drops for Physis, Rano, and Connous are kinda obvious, they most likely will belong to a quest or two. Then.. what about Zardine and/or Courcle? They have no quest board, and the monsters there still drop...drops. How should the format be set up? I tried putting the Millipede Skin and Carnivorous Plant Stem into the StyleAnimalArtifact format, but that didn't seem to fit (yes I know I'm slow..) because there is (most likely) no exploration quest for them to belong in. Therefore no required exploration level, no reward gold, no reward exploration/character exp, no cost of the quest, etc. The Fomor scroll style doesn't seem to fit either, cuz I don't believe the drops from Zardine/Courcle are really used for a hunting quest or something (maybe a PTJ..?). They're just kinda there. But the StyleItemHeader/Footer thing doesn't seem to suit it either, because they are dropped by stuff, yet that template doesn't show what. Moral of the story: is it possible that we need to make a new template for the, basically, 'useless' drops? Or would we just have to live with the Fomor scroll style? Because that seems to fit it the most, apart from the fact that they aren't used for anything.--^♪♫_♪♫тιиα♪^♫♪_♫^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 15:38, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Use Template:StyleItemHeaderTop. Put the monster drop info in Method. If later they become part of a quest then just change style templates. See Firewood for an example. --ZRoc (Talk) 07:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Ahh, I see. Thanks *declares this question resolved*--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 17:10, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Q78

Sadly, this applies to basically every single page. How should the "Description" be set up? Should they just be in italics on the top of the page, or in their own little header/section thing? I've been seeing both, and they seem to depend on the uh... type of page. Like, for equips, they seem to be in their own little heading, and in items, or at least the food items, they seem to be italicized at the top of the page (assuming that they do have a description present). So then... where should they go?--^♪♫_♪♫тιиα♪^♫♪_♫^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 15:38, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

See Q65 (if you can wade through all of it lol) but for now either use User:Angevon/Dagger or just use the existing different layouts for weapon and equipment pages until a final layout is agreed to. I think Angevon's Dagger example page is the best compromise and probably should be used but others may still have different ideas =3. --ZRoc (Talk) 03:45, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Imo, the TOC on the right would look better. :x --κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 06:33, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually I wasn't really referring to weapons/equipments o-o... Like... On the monster drop pages, I believe (assuming that they aren't stubs, roflmao) that the "Description" is in its own little heading thing, but then on all the food pages (that I spent like 2 days trying to tidy up, by food pages, I mean all the good stuff in here.) the description is italicized on the top of the page.. Like, they're both items (food = items :D), but they have a different format. x:.... I'd like a little guide/table/list thing of what should look like what. While I was rummaging through those food pages, I also noticed that there were like 3 different templates. StyleMadeFoodHeader, StyleFoodTop/Header/Footer (for the in-consumable foods, or at least most of them), and... the uh...uh.. I know there's another one ==..... Anywho. Yea, so, erm.... Yea. o-o.. Everything seems to be caught up in the change from old to new.. Or maybe new to old. Idk.--^♪♫_♪♫тιиα♪^♫♪_♫^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 20:55, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Found it :D. I think its only on the noodle page (I didn't go through every page, just the ones that needed a bit of fixing, which.. was a lot.). The StyleInedibleFoodHeaderTop/Footer thing. Its weird cuz it doesn't use "Header". So.. StyleMadeFood(Header), StyleFood(Top/Header/Footer), and StyleInedibleFoodHeader(Top/Footer).--^♪♫_♪♫тιиα♪^♫♪_♫^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 22:30, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

From the noodle page's history it appears StyleInedibleFoodHeader is a test template by Angevon, created quite a while ago. If its only on the noodle page then I dont think she's going to use it. Ask her if you can change it back to one of the other two templates. As for the other two templates, I dont know what's going on with them and probably dont want to lol. In-game descriptions should be in italics to show they are different from the rest of the info, i.e., that info is quoted directly from the game and not created by a user from the wiki. If the description is created by a user then it should not be in italics. --ZRoc (Talk) 07:32, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

roflmao... Then what about the skill pages? I understand the translated stuff aren't in italics for a reason, but the actual stuff that has been implemented, well, would it even look good in italics? o.o--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 12:34, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

An item description is usually the only in-game text that is intended to be quoted verbatim on this wiki, so there is no need to worry about skill pages. Although some of the info on skill pages may follow closely what is given in-game, it's usually incorporated with wording that is not. They have been edited to remove spelling mistakes and poor sentence structures. They have had extra info added that is not provided in any in-game text or had info added to make it more understandable. Info other than item descriptions can be a verbatim copy but this is not the intent while item descriptions are intended to be verbatim copies and are therefore in italics. Some of the item descriptions have had minor spelling corrections but I find it better if they are copied exactly as given in-game. --ZRoc (Talk) 14:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I have this little voice inside my head saying we're straying a bit from the question o.o;;... So lemme get this straight. Skill pages out of the question, equipment pages should have the description under their own little header, as shown in User:Angevon/Dagger, and... item pages, pages of items, should just have them on the top of the page..? (in italics for both). Majority of the pages seemingly cleared....what about the um....nevermind. :D--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 20:47, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Q79

Probably unrelated to everything that is meant to be asked it but, does anyone have any info on Homemade Dyes or rather "Dyestuff"? On foreign servers, the people who I don't know which I can't really ask but it seems they have custom coloured armors and shields mostly that weren't meant to be. I've seen hetero, valencias, and pretty much everything else ranging from dark red to light purple throughout the whole rainbow. --Kaillera 02:03, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I havent heard of any special type of dye, even on foreign servers. Are you sure the custom colours they have aren't just a result of a lucky finish they got from blacksmithing? --Zephyre^TALK 14:39, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

It's there trust me. It's not usable as it is though, so I don't know how to use it. I've seen people having them with their color scheme like pure black heteros, or a silver metal with green decoration pieces. --Kaillera 17:50, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I could be just misunderstanding the question, as I tend to do that.. a lot, but couldn't they have just gotten lucky, like Zephyre said, or just use a fixed dye? I'm pretty sure they work on Light Hetero Shields (actually I'm not). Or it could've been blacksmithed/gacha-found, unless you know that it was dyed. That's all I can say, sorrys D:--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 20:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried asking on the forum, you may get more answers there. This advice is coming from someone who has almost never used the forum, so follow it at your own risk. =3 --ZRoc (Talk) 00:27, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Oryt. This does seem more in-game-related than wiki-related. I have this little voice inside my head saying that there's more active people on the wiki, but like ZRoc, I don't really go on the forums. :D. I forgot my username once..heh. I wish you luck on finding the answer to your question~ :3~αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 20:35, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Q80

I Need Some Opinions

NPCs Categories

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I have changed the Race category (see Category:NPC Races) and classified most of the NPCs. The Category:NPC Races is meant for the races of NPCs that have individual identities in the game, where those identities have only been created by Nexon. The category therefore does not include the race/species of players, pets, most monsters or weapon spirits (except Eiry). Elf, Giant and Human races are included because NPCs belong to them but these NPCs are all Tuatha de Danaans while players from these three races are all Milletians. Ruwai, Rab, Tarlach and Weird Cat are in the Category:NPC Animals rather than as part of a race in Category:NPC Races as animals are considered too lowly to belong to a race.
However, I need some opinions, the only 2 NPCs I'm not sure of are Aer and Eiry (well I've classed Yoff as an Elf, which isn't exactly correct but its close enough). They are both spirits, Aer is a Water Spirit and Eiry is a Weapon Spirit. Random claimed Aer is an elf (see Talk:Aer for the argument lol) but I think the one and only in-game reference (see her quoted description) to an elf is a translation error. While conversing with her, two of her replies have her stating she is a Water Spirit. Also, I believe she is referred to as a Water Spirit during the G2 Ideal Types quest. Anyway, Aer could be classed as a Fomor but I dont think she is. However, both are spirits and these are usually classed as (minor) deities (in fantasy stories and legends), however, I don't know what Nexon intended (unfortunately, I cant read their minds lol). Perhapes a new NPC race called Spirits or have 2 sub-categories in the Deity category, e.g., "Spirits" and "Gods" or "Minor Deities" and "Gods"? --ZRoc (Talk) 03:57, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Just a quick thing for now. Maybe you can make a category for "Event NPCs" or something. The Sassy and Barker Imps aren't around anymore so I think keeping them in the Fomor category is misleading. I'll look over it more tomorrow. --- Angevon (Talk) 04:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Category:Event NPCs has been created. Sassy Imp, Barker Imp and Cotton Candy Sheep now belong to it. Also, Cotton Candy Sheep is still in Category:NPC Animals. =3 --ZRoc (Talk) 08:11, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I think I made a mistake, Milletians can be any character created by a player (excluding pets and weapon spirits) and so far are restricted to Giants, Elves and Humans. However, references from in-game books and conversations I dimly remember with NPCs in Tir Chonaill (e.g., stuff Duncan says during Human beginner quests in Uladh) Tuatha de Dananns refers only to Humans born in Erinn. As far as I can make out Tuatha de Dananns are the direct descendants (mostly living in northern Uladh) of the previous Partholon clan of Humans. So disregard what I said earlier about Giant and Elf NPCs being Tuatha de Dananns. However, Humans, Giants and Elves born on Erinn are different from the Milletian Humans, Giants and Elves that come from the Soul Stream (that's us players lol). --ZRoc (Talk) 12:41, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Milletians are creatures brought from some place (Earth.....if it had elves/giants?), transferred through Soul Stream (by the means of Nao), and then into the world of Erinn. As for pets..idk. To be honest, I've never logged onto a pet before I summoned it from my people-characters. Regarding your last point, I... fail to see one. Oh yea. There's that one NPC, the one that subs for Caitin when Caitin's away doing the Emain Cook Off..thing. She's a Milletian. A NPC, but still a Milletian. I guess I can't really complain about your new categories, just make sure you didn't miss anyone/thing.--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 22:46, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, I dont know anything about the NPCs that substitute for the regular NPCs during the weekly Cooking Competition in Emain Macha (I think there are three). If there isn't a page for the NPC then I can't classify them, those substitute NPCs do not exist on their own pages and I'm not about to create them as I dont know anything about them. If someone does then let me know and I'll classify them. Its fine if a Human NPC is a Milletian, all I was trying to point out was NPCs belonging to the same race dont neccesarily belong to a single group (e.g., not all Human NPCs are Tuatha de Danann), let alone NPCs from different races belonging to one group (i.e., Elf and Giant NPCs do not belong to the Tuatha de Danann, which I had earlier mistakenly said they did). On the other hand, it appears all player created characters (EXCLUDING pets and weapon spirits - I'm not worrying about these at the moment) are classified as being Milletians.

But back to the original question, what do people think Aer and Eiry should be classified as? --ZRoc (Talk) 03:15, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Eiry's a Spirit Weapon, so...is there a category for that? :S --Jαy 03:20, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Maybe make a Spirit category? --- Angevon (Talk) 03:32, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

To Jαy: Thank you for the suggestion, however, Spirit Weapons are the weapon you hold while beings like Eiry are the spirit in that weapon (that's why I'm calling her a Weapon Spirit here but I'm NOT suggesting that this be used elsewhere on the wiki). Eiry can inhabit a bow for new Elves, a hammer for new Giants and a sword for new Humans. When you get Spirit Awakening (not Eiry but for the player created spirit weapons), the Weapon Spirit comes out of the spirit weapon to perform a special attack. The NPC a player talks to as Eiry is the young girl with wings not the physical weapon equipped in your hand. There is a page for Spirit Weapons but that is irrelevant to Eiry as an NPC. Also Eiry is the only Weapon Spirit NPC, all the others are player created and not Nexon created, so I'd rather not create a category for a single NPC if I can help it. Even for just two NPCs a single category seems extravagant but both Eiry and Aer are fairly high profile NPCs (everyone meets Eiry while Aer is used to get the Ideal Types quest in G2, among other things).

To Angevon: one person for a Spirit category, thank you. --ZRoc (Talk) 05:15, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, no-one else has bothered to give an opinion *sigh*. I'll use Angevon's suggestion and make a Spirit category. If someone has a better idea or hates this one then it can always be changed. --ZRoc (Talk) 02:33, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Q81

Recently, there have been problems with attendance at the giant field bosses, especially Red Dragon and Desert Dragon, at least on Tarlach. So in order to combat this, I've made Category:Giant Field Boss with some information about them that was never on the wiki before. So basically my question is, is it possible to get a link to this page put somewhere where people will actually find it? --Inemnitable 05:58, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry but what is important to one person is idle chatter to another. I like what you have done but why should your page be given more importance than say the page on hardmode dungeons or blacksmithing. Having said that, perhapes ask whoever is maintaining the Featured Article section, on the wiki's front page, to have it as the next topic? Otherwise, set up a thread on Nexon and/or Mabinogi World forums (or whatever other forum about Mabinogi that gets a lot of hits). --ZRoc (Talk) 16:45, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Not to miss the point, but blacksmithing and hardmode dungeons don't end up essentially hidden when one puts them in the proper place on the wiki. Furthermore, both these topics have links on the main page. Since the giant field bosses are essentially mabi's equivalent of high level raid bosses in other games, I really fail to see how the topic isn't important. And stop apologizing for things you're not sorry for (I get annoyed by stuff like that). --Inemnitable 18:58, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

There are minor exceptions (the only major one I guess would be the black panthers....things..? *leopards, idk.) such as the aardvark clan in Rano, but a LOT of the field bosses are Giants, and the ones on Uladh tend to spawn with their minions, but that's beside the point. So I'd suggest renaming the category. But Ima have to go with ZRoc. I don't see why this should be a category (I know he didn't really say this), seeing it as a page should be fine enough, with a list of the monsters at the bottom. I see where you're going, with the fact that you might as well put the info somewhere, but eh... Yea, that doesn't really "deserve" to be a category. And I'd like to question: regarding all the information you have on the page, is it true?--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 20:41, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, by the criteria I give, only the bosses I put in the category are "Giant" Field Bosses. If it doesn't drop an item for everyone who hits it, it isn't a Giant Field Boss, regardless of whether it says "Giant" in the name or not. So for example, Giant Short-Horned Gnu is just a normal field boss like any of the old Uladh ones. And yes, all the information is true. JPWiki has a huge page on the giant field bosses, if you don't believe me. --Inemnitable 06:58, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, look at the wiki's front page under "Speices", is that what you wanted (if the changes are not wanted I'll put them back as they were). Sorry but what annoys you is not what you wanted to discuss here and the way I decide to speak is my choice not yours =P Sorry but I think Category:Giant Field Boss should be a sub-category of Category:Field Boss. Sooooo sorry (I can be so childish XD) --ZRoc (Talk) 10:56, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I moved it into Category:Boss because continuously nesting things into subcategories annoys me. --- Angevon (Talk) 15:11, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

....I wonder how that was missed. Look buddy, tell me exactly how it's better off as a category than as a page. There are literally only 10 "giant field bosses" on that list. I have this little voice inside my head saying that 10 links aren't too hard to handle adding onto a new page. And maybe there could be a little message like "For other giant field bosses, go here." at the top. Oh man. *getting pepped up for an argument*--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 21:43, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Edit: *at the top of each giant field boss's page, leading back to the list.

ZRoc:It was a sub-category of Category:Field Boss until Angevon moved it. And the link on the main page is great, though it should probably be unindented now that it's not a subcategory of Category:Field Boss; I'll just go ahead and do that. And just ignore my side comments. :P

Dramartistic: if you have a specific better idea of where to put this information so that people will see it, please share. For now I guess I'll just put a link back to the category on each page or in the MonsterData, as the situation requires. Already did this with the Dragon page before you suggested it anyway. --Inemnitable 02:30, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh man. You...are totally avoiding the question. How is it better off as a category than as a normal page?--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 03:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Because at the bottom of the monster's page now it has "Category:Giant Field Boss" on it? I don't know. It's not really that important. There are plenty of other categories that also act as pages. Like, the hard mode dungeons don't really need their own category since there are only 3 of them, but there is a category for them. --- Angevon (Talk) 04:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Category pages are ideal for listing pages that belong to a general group, rather than using hard code to create individual links on a normal page. Having info on a category page (as Inemnitable has done) really shouldn't be a problem as the listed pages are seperate from the info. You can create a seperate normal page and move the info there but the category should still remain (and would need some info about what it's for). I don't think a seperate normal page should be created but if it really bothers you then it's a possible solution. --ZRoc (Talk) 06:32, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind.--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 21:54, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Although I still think it should be a sub-category of Category:Field Boss however it's not worth annoying Angevon (considering how much I already abuse her generosity lol), so I'll shut up now and be quiet XD --ZRoc (Talk) 06:34, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Q82

Proposal for where items come from.

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Is everyone okay with the way I set up the "Methods to Obtain" section with the different subsections for User:Angevon/Dagger? If so, I'd like to start using it on all equipment pages not just the weapons. If an item only has one way to be obtained, it won't need to be set up as a subsection (i.e. don't use the "Methods to Obtain" just keep the "Store Locations" section intact for an item like Adolph Glove which can only be bought in stores), but for things with multiple methods it might be more organized. --- Angevon (Talk) 22:24, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I like, but for the sub-heading "Store", maybe it should be reworded to "Store Locations" or something of the like. ^^;?--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 13:45, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Sure thing. --- Angevon (Talk) 20:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I've also added a "Dye Palette" section which describes what parts can be dyed (I can get them from JP). I have no idea how to figure out which type of Dye Palette is used for each part so they'll be question marks for now. --- Angevon (Talk) 21:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I'll try to help as much as I can with that. But for most, I guess you can just use common sense. Like most armors are metal and/or leather (I think o-o).--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 20:22, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I like it, except that you may want to keep the ToC seperate from the Description section so that when you hit the edit button for the Description section then only the Description section is available for editing. In this example the ToC is only in a table rather than both it and the Description section being in a table. Editing the Description section does not include the ToC but the ToC is still to the left of the description section rather than above it. The only real difference is that any text from the Description section that goes further down the page than the ToC is below the ToC instead of staying aligned to the right of the ToC. This appears to work on Firefox, the latest version of Opera and IE version 8. --ZRoc (Talk) 14:13, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

By the way, I like your choice for the Weapon Stats table. it looks very similar to one possible example I had made up a while back lol. --ZRoc (Talk) 14:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Because that's where I got it from =p Just changed it a little. --- Angevon (Talk) 21:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, ZRoc, I was only asking about the "Methods to Obtain" section in this question. There is still a discussion concerning the TOC part at Q&A #65 because some people wanted it put on the right instead of the left. I'll see what you did there with the TOC and still change my multiple example pages accordingly though. --- Angevon (Talk) 21:38, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Like me. :D [Rhetorical..?] Question: Does there really have to be a TOC?--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 22:06, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Angevon: Oh really? Then I want copyright on that table lol. Actually, I'm glad someone found something useful from what I did =3

Oops sorry, you're right I should have put that comment in Q&A #65. Should I move it there?

αму: A ToC is very useful, especially for long pages where they allow you to get to a section you want quickly rather than scrolling down the page (e.g., the leveling requirements table for a particular rank on a skill page). --ZRoc (Talk) 05:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

The sub sections should use the old version of naming, i.e., Store Locations, Monster Drops, and Blacksmithing/Handicraft/Tailoring Requirements as these are more informative. Dungeon End Chest Reward should be used instead of Dungeons as it is more informative, i.e., Dungeons could refer to obtaining it from the monsters in the dungeon, chests used to make monsters appear in a dungeon room, the dungeon chests you need a key to open (the ones you find halfway through a dungeon floor, not the end room). I know weapons dont drop from anything but monsters or end room chests but if your going to use this across all item pages then its better to be consistent (items such as bandages, firewood, etc., do drop from other chests besides those found in a dungeon's end room). The chests that are not end room chests but do provide an item can probably be listed in the Misc. sub section. --ZRoc (Talk) 11:16, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Is there a template for Handicraft Requirements, that looks like the ones used by Blacksmithing and Tailoring? I dont like style/data templates but we already have those used for Tailoring and Blacksmithing, so it may as well be done. The Eweca Short Sword, Ghost Sword and Eweca Shield are made via Handicraft. --ZRoc (Talk) 11:33, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

No, but we can make one (perhaps not as confusing to use as the Blacksmithing and Handicraft ones).

So far I've been using the following formats:
== Methods to Obtain ==
=== NPC Stores ===
=== Monster Drops ===
=== Dungeon Rewards ===
=== [[Blacksmithing]] ===
=== [[Tailoring]] ===
=== [[Fishing#Fishing_locations:|Fishing Locations]] ===
=== Gachapon ===
=== Events ===
=== Misc. ===

Where Misc. has mainly been used for exploration. Note that "Methods to Obtain" is the section header and the others are subsections of it. Putting "Store Locations" and "Tailoring Requirements" didn't look or sound right when it's under "Methods to Obtain" like this. I wanted it to look more like a list, and I'm also trying to lessen the width of the ToC. If you want me to change the subheading names, tell me soon before I've formatted too many pages. If you want it the old way though I'll do it the old way.

Here are some pages I've done it to: Bracelet, Dustin Silver Knight Vambrace, Guardian Gloves --- Angevon (Talk) 18:06, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

.......................................*FACEPALM*. Well, question. Does it have to be "=== [[Fishing#Fishing_locations:|Fishing Locations]] ===", or can it just be "=== [[Fishing Locations]] ==="? I went around changing the links to the latter.... .....dontkillmeplz. I realize that the second link redirects to the "Fished Items" list, but eh.. ....*feels somewhat regretful*--^{Яειм 's} Talk 20:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

If you're going restrict the length of section names just to minimise the width of the ToC then you're going to have problems in providing titles to sections that mean anything. I agree they should be kept as short as possible but not so short they become meaningless, otherwise you might as well use Section 1, Section 2, etc. However, as a list of sub-sections belonging to the "Methods to Obtain" section then I agree your titles are more suitable and I retract what I said earlier about using the old section names. So, instead for the ones that may be unclear (e.g., Dungeon Rewards) add a short sentence under it's section title stating what goes there (e.g., "This section lists the dungeons an item is obtained from as a reward from an end room chest.").

You should have the Misc. section for anything that is not a regular source, does not provide a lot of different versions (as in item grades, enchants or colors) of an item and does not have multiple sources, for example, events, hot-air ballooning, rafting, other chests besides end chests in dungeons, exploration etc. There are a lot of ways to obtain things in Mabinogi and Nexon will add to those methods, so keeping some methods to obtain an item in the Misc. section would shorten a page's length and be easier to standardise across pages. --ZRoc (Talk) 05:56, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Other methods to obtain an item that would belong in Misc. are using the Fetch! command with certain pets, pets that have the items in their inventory when created (e.g., the Dull Weeding Hoe that comes with the Polar Bear and Red Panda), using the Sweep! command with Broom pets. --ZRoc (Talk) 06:58, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

@Dramartistic The fishing coding doesn't matter to me. I only kept it that way because ZRoc was putting it that way.

@ZRoc Yes, those things can go in Misc. Should the Misc. section be a simple list or a table? --- Angevon (Talk) 16:07, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

I would keep the Misc. section as a bulletted list, that way you can add an explanation after the initial method. There may be a need to add some form of extra details or explanation. For example;

• Rafting - a possible random reward for obtaining 19~21 stars.
• Hot-Air Ballooning - a reward for obtaining 26~30 stars.
• The Treasure Chest Event (Jan. 2009) - a random reward from an Ordinary Chest.

Note that, for a certain range of stars, rafting and hot-air ballooning can either give rewards that are always available or a possible random selection. The treasure chest events gave premium and ordinary chests.

If a table is neccesary for one of the methods in the bulletted list then it can still be added for just that method. For example;

== Misc. ==

• method 1
• method 2 - some extra info, blah, blah.
• method 3 - some extra info and see table below;

Location	Enchants	Style
Location 1	Rank ? Suffix EnchantX	Color 1
Location 2	Rank ? Prefix EnchantY	Color 2

• method 4
• method 5 - some extra info, blah, blah.

By the way, I would have thought Events and Gachapons would be in the Misc section but that's only my opinion lol --ZRoc (Talk) 20:27, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

To Dramartistic: I only created the Fishing Locations section on the Fishing page recently and didn't think of making a redirect page. Do you want a redirect page to the Fishing Locations section on the Fishing page? At the moment [[Fishing Locations]] doesn't link to anything (its a red link - Fishing Locations). --ZRoc (Talk) 21:36, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

I've made the redirect page for Fishing Locations, so you can use that from now on. --ZRoc (Talk) 16:37, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

To keep the naming of sub-sections in Methods to Obtain consistent then the Fishing Locations sub-section should actually be called Fishing and link to the Fishing page, i.e.,
=== [[Fishing]] ===. --ZRoc (Talk) 11:36, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Also, the Gachapon sub-section should in fact be called Gachapons. --ZRoc (Talk) 12:07, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay, will do. --- Angevon (Talk) 15:07, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Follow ZRoc's guide for the final outcome of the Methods to Obtain section's setup. --- Angevon (Talk) 16:42, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Q83

Is it really necessary to keep putting "Cannot be upgraded" in the limitations for gloves, robes, shoes, helmets? None can be upgraded, so continuously putting that there makes you think, wait are there some that can be upgraded? Also, anyone who has ever moused over their gloves etc. should have realized by now that it doesn't gain prof. --- Angevon (Talk) 22:24, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

NO. :D.... But you should put it somewhere, like maybe in the Gloves/Robes/Helmets/Shoes categories. But I think we should still keep the little tag for weapons and other supposedly upgradeable items that can't be upgraded. Like the Hooked Cutlass. (Actually, as I was typing this, I realize it doesn't even say that it can't be upgraded. *adds it in*)--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 22:50, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Sure, un-upgradeable weapons should keep it. Similar question: would you mind if I remove the upgrades/sequences for clothing and armor and simply made a link to the page with thier upgrades? It would shorten the size of the page, in filesize and in length. The pages would load a little quicker. I doubt most people go to the clothing page for upgrades anyway. Like:

==Upgrades==

See Clothes Upgrades for a list of upgrades and sequences available.

--- Angevon (Talk) 19:55, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, with the tool upgrades, I like it, except its missing the Upgrade Sequences (and I like how the sequences are in that hidden..boxthing.) Does every clothe[s?] have the same upgrades..? If so, then yea. Why be so redundant..? o.o;--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 20:19, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea regarding clothes and armor upgrades, as the upgrade sequences take up a lot of space and are mostly pretty similar, and there isn't even an obvious choice as to the best one. Another option might be to leave the upgrades themselves and just link for the sequences. Not sure if just doing something halfway is the best idea though. --Inemnitable 06:59, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Not having the "Cannot be upgraded" in the limitations may confuse a newcomer but as stated it may make them think some could be upgraded. As Angevon also stated, for gloves, robes, shoes and helmets they would find out pretty quick that they cannot be upgraded. I don't see a real problem in removing it from those items but you probably want some sort of guide page listing what should and shouldn't be added to items belonging to certain categories. Also, you should perhapes point new users to said guide page when they join, as well as point existing users to them, if you create it. --ZRoc (Talk) 13:37, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Where categories of items have the same upgrades and therefore upgrade sequences, having them listed on each item's page is redundant and adds unnecessary length to said pages. Linking to a single page containing those upgrades and upgrade sequences is a better way of doing it. --ZRoc (Talk) 13:42, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Well then, where should it go? I understand limitations are more fore races/gender, but I can only think of one other word that might work well, "Restrictions", but..iunno. Maybe a "Disclaimer" section? (lol..)--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 20:43, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand what you are suggesting, Dramartistic. --- Angevon (Talk) 21:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Like... Well, I could be wrong (since I couldn't find anything that couldn't be upgraded that said so), but I think "Cannot be upgraded" would go under the "Limitations" section, but I thought the "Limitations" section would be more for race restrictions, and not for things regarding the weapon itself, such as not being able to be upgraded.... It's nothing, I'm just being stupid.--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 22:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I think you've got the wrong impression, though I could be wrong too. The Limitation is for any restriction that applies to an item. It is not only for race and gender restrictions but also if it cannot be upgraded, cannot be enchanted, is an ineffective weapon or shield, cannot be sold to an NPC, cannot be dropped, cannot be stored in a bank, etc. The race and gender restrictions are the most common and are displayed seperately on an items in-game mouse-over window, therefore they are usually the first to show up on an item's Limitations section on the wiki. They may also be the only restriction that applies to an item.

The question Angevon was asking, correct me if I'm wrong, was whether "Cannot be upgraded" should be listed in the Limitations section for items belonging to the Gloves, Robes, Shoes and Headgear categories. Note that, no item belonging to the Gloves, Robes, Shoes and Headgear categories can be upgraded (at least, not at the moment). So just stating on each of the Gloves, Robes, Shoes and Headgear category pages that items belonging to these categories cannot be upgraded should probably be enough.

Items that cannot be upgraded but belong to a category where other items can be upgraded (Shields, Weapons, Clothing/Armor, Instruments, Tools) will keep the "Cannot be upgraded" statement in their Limitations section. --ZRoc (Talk) 05:52, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh. I was referring to the Hooked Cutlass, because I couldn't come up with any other example off of the top of my head that would supposedly (most weapons can be upgraded, I think) be able to be upgraded, but was one of the rare cases that could not. And the second point (that probably wasn't too clear) was that I, personally, believed that "limitations" isn't really the right word... Or that there were at least better words out there that could probably make more sense.... Bleh.. Iunno. Heh... sorry, I have this tendency to stray off topic, so much that it makes people tend to wonder if I'm meaning to say it when/where I do. But yea, I understand Angevon's original proposal. Now that I think about it.... Do armors/clothings all have the same possible upgrades? (excluding the ones that can't be upgraded, of course).--^{Dяαмαятιѕтιс 's} ταιқ 23:01, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Excluding those that cannot be upgraded, all heavy armor has the same set of upgrades, all light armor has the same set of upgrades and all clothing has tha same set of upgrades. However, some or all of the upgrades available for heavy armor may differ from those available to light armor which again may differ from those available to clothes. As for choosing another name for the Limitations section, if people want to do so then fine but I like Limitations =3 --ZRoc (Talk) 20:43, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

So for the clothes/heavy armors/light armors, there should just be a link to their respective upgrades page in the Upgrades section on the item's page? (if that makes any sense lol..). Hmm... So.... the equipments that can't be upgraded, like hats, gloves, shoes, robes, and various exceptions from the general type (like the Hooked Cutlass :D?), should just have "Cannot be upgraded." under the Limitations section, and not even bother to have an upgrade section at all? (This may seem like common sense..but you'd be surprised.)--^{Яειм 's} Talk 21:09, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

For the Hooked Cutlass having Cannot be upgraded. in the Limitations section is needed as other swords can be upgraded. However, Angevon was asking if for whole categories where nothing can be upgraded (Headgear, Gloves, Shoes and Robes) then the Cannot be upgraded. limitation should be placed only on the Category:Headgear, Category:Gloves, Category:Shoes and Category:Robes pages rather than on the page of each item that belongs to these categories. --ZRoc (Talk) 21:48, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

And yes, I think that would be a good idea for the clothes/heavy armors/light armors, that is, just link to their respective upgrade pages. --ZRoc (Talk) 21:55, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

oic. Sorry for asking so many questions that stray from the topic question ^^;....--^{Яειм 's} Talk 22:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Q84

Equipment subcategories.

Do you think it would be useful to have equipment subcategories based on race? Like "Category:Clothes for Giants" and in it would be all clothes that Giants can wear. Every clothing item will still be in Category:Clothes, of course. Basically since you can't tell which race can wear the item based on the item's name alone, Giant players can go to that category instead to see all the clothes they can wear (Giant is just an example, the same would be done for Human and Elf too.) I was also thinking of making this a hidden category so that we don't have sooo many cats listed on the bottom of the item pages.

Yes, I know people can go the the Equipment Lists and find race restrictions listed there, but this idea would be simple to implement (I'm volunteering) and easier to use (imo). Some of the list pages are a mess from all the race restrictions (mainly Gloves List) that it's kinda hard to even look at.

I plan to go through most equipment pages and cross-reference on JP Wiki for the Resell Value so I thought I'd kill a few more birds with one stone by asking these 3 questions and getting some page formatting done as well. ---Angevon (Talk) 22:24, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. I have no objections, except make sure that you don't miss a spot. Also, I can't say that the equipment lists are even up to date, so I guess you can also do that to. So, 1 vote for yes.--αму^ταιқ♪♫_♪ 22:41, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. --Inemnitable 08:57, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it would be useful. --ZRoc (Talk) 13:26, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Q85

Props and misc. NPCs Categories?

To read, Click Show

We have an NPCs category, however, there isn't (or I cannot find) anything specifically about other related things. Is there something like or would it be worth creating;

• a Playable Characters category - contains player races, NPCs that can be roleplayed by a player (from side quests and mainstream quests), those a player can become in events (e.g., the Imp a player became by doing the Imp's Dream Land Event (2009)) and pets (a player can log-in and play as a pet).
• a Player Controlled Characters category - contains pets (summoned pets are only controlled by the player that created them, where player here is used to mean the account holder on a server not a single character on that account), spirits in Spirit Weapons (a player's character makes a contract with the spirit to create their own spirit weapon, names it, feeds it and it can only be used or commanded by that character) and anything that may be similar in side quests, mainstream quests and events (can't think of anything for these but it may occur in future). This would not include Eiry who is an NPC created by Nexon
• Interacted Objects (may need a better name lol) - contains pages for inanimate objects that can be interacted with, such as, party board, quest board, mailbox (I know it has NPC in front of it in-game but it is no more an NPC than the party boards or spinning wheels that are available to everyone in many towns), an inanimate object that can be hit (tree, lamp, signpost, etc.), a gathering site (wheat/corn/barlry stalk, ore pile, etc.) and anything else I can't think of right now.

Pages for trees (yes I consider the in-game trees and bushes as inanimate objects unlike the [[:Category:Plant|plant monsters]]), lamps, signposts, etc., don't appear to exist however I was thinking of creating such pages to list what can be obtained from hitting them. Many similar inanimate objects that can be hit appear to give the same items but some dont neccesarily do so. For example, trees generally give Berries but the Courcle Coffee Tree gives Courcle Coffee Berries and the Apple Tree gives Apples. --ZRoc (Talk) 10:21, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Also, in the trees category/page, there's some trees that you can chop wood from, and some that you can't. In the most part, I think the trees that drop berries can have wood hacked off of them (as in, not them coconut trees by Qilla...I think?). And then trees that you can't hit (like.. I believe the ones in Courcle and in Karu). But I mean... *imagines the description of the tree category/page* (okay, maybe not the first sentence)

This plant can be found almost everywhere in the world of Erinn and is an essential part of life(lmao....). Most trees drop various objects when struck, such as branches, and certain fruit, which are only obtainable by such methods.

(actually that isn't too bad o-o..) But just about the only things those inanimate objects do, besides be there, is drop money and nails and gems. (and maybe pure white equipment... though I still believe that's a rumor.)--^{Яειм 's} Talk 22:56, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

The scarecrows outside Dunbarton drop Sickles, with the Scarecrow suffix enchant, by hitting them (it can take a while but I've done it myself). Different trees may need seperate pages, perhapes something like Pine Tree, Cedar, etc. Another tree that can't be chopped for wood are the small palm trees (or are they called something else) around Qilla Base Camp but they drop Coconuts, unlike the nearby tall palm trees which give wood by chopping and Coconuts by hitting. Not only dropped and/or gathered items (thank you for reminding me that some trees are also gathering sites for wood, I didn't even think about that lol) can be listed on each inanimate and interactive object's page but also their general locations and an image. --ZRoc (Talk) 01:33, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

The game data calls inanimate objects "props," if that's helpful. Kind of makes sense from a theatre standpoint. --Inemnitable 19:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

So use a category called Props for inanimate objects that should have a fixed position (may be exceptions but I can't think of any), cannot be placed in any type of inventory or storage (there should be no exceptions), do not have a unique identity (like most monsters but unlike most NPCs - may be exceptions) and must be interacted with by a player in some manner. Note that, Category:In-House Tools are not Props as they can be stored in the inventory of a player or a house and can be moved about. Sub-categories could be;

• Striking Props or Hitting Props (please suggest a better name) - for those that drop items when hit. Would include trees that can be hit and can also be chopped for wood which would include those trees in the Resource Sites sub-category as well. Does not include monsters.
• Resource Sites - for those that items can be gathered from, where those items are used as materials for production skills or actions. Would include the trees that can be chopped for wood and can also be hit to make items drop which would include those trees in the Striking Props or Hitting Props sub-category as well. Does not include gathering animals such as sheep or chickens.
• Category:Public Tools - which already exists. <-- Look at the pages in this category for how most pages in the Props category would be set-up as
• Boards - for party boards, quest boards, housing shopping boards (or whatever they're called) and any other boards I can't think of.
• Chests - exploration chests, dungeon chests (end room, mid dungeon requiring a key, the ones that you need to open to make monsters appear in a room, the ones in the underground passages in Solea and the Connous Underground, artifact chests (found via exploration) in Courcle, etc.
• Buildings - for houses (there are different types of houses) and castles (there are two castles at present which provide different dungeons). Houses and Castles can be interacted with as they need to be built, have storage capacity, etc. Although, you can rent a different house, however, you cant move a house (it can only be destroyed and a new one built on the same spot).
• Statues - found in Iria and can be drawn or have items collected from them (I don't think they qualify as a Resource Site as the items obtained aren't really materials required for production skills or actions).
• Miscellaneous Props - for mailboxes, coffins for lost elfs and anything else that doesn't have multiple versions that do a similar thing.
• Event Props - those that only appear during events. However this category may not be necessary as they appear to be adequately covered by an individual event's page (especially as each individual repeating event now gets its own page). Let me know if anyone thinks this category is worth creating.

At the moment, I can't think of anymore but please suggest any you can think of. --ZRoc (Talk) 10:59, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Go for it! The naming of props could be hard though. --- Angevon (Talk) 16:42, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Q86

Skill Summary Charts

To read, Click Show

I've been occasionally editing some data charts for future content skills when I notice they're missing data or are poorly formatted, and in so doing, I've been comparing major skill pages for chart formatting precedent. What I've noticed is... in a lot of respects there isn't one, especially as regards what should be included (for example, lines for stat bonus per rank and total, or only total?) and in what order it should be placed. Also, many skill pages don't include data for Novice rank, even when it's usable. I suggest we try to establish some kind of general formatting guidelines; once I finish for now with the chart I'm working on, I'll start working on a suggestion for this. --Inemnitable 01:27, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok suggestion:

• Main skill-related info (damage, success rates, etc.)
• AP Cost
  • Per Rank
  • Total
• Stat Bonuses
  • HP
  • Mana
  • Stamina
  • Strength
  • Intelligence
  • Dexterity
  • Will
• Minor skill-related info (mana/stamina use, ranges, etc.)
• CP
  • Skill CP
  • Stat CP

Novice rank information should be included when it is usable. Obviously irrelevant rows should be excluded. Rows for Stat Bonuses per Rank should be excluded when they would cause the table to be longer than 6 rows. When seperate rows for different races are required, they should come in the order Human, Elf, Giant.

Perhaps standard coloration for race dependent rows should be considered as well? We'd need... probably 5 different colors, Elf/Giant seems an unlikely combination. I can work on implementing whatever we decide on. --Inemnitable 01:46, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

That order looks fine to me. When a skill has differences for all three races, maybe we should try to make three different summary tables. There have been a couple of complaints that having all 3 races in one table is confusing. Icebolt, Smash for example. Just a thought. --- Angevon (Talk) 02:30, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea and I also agree with Angevon, i.e., using seperate race tables seem less confusing. Whatever you choose to do, can you make an example of what you want (as in an actual table or tables) and link it here. That would give a clearer idea of what you want to do. --ZRoc (Talk) 03:26, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

And including the novice skill level data when it's usable (will you have N/A when its not or just not include it?) is a very good idea --ZRoc (Talk) 03:32, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

6 rows..? That seems extremely small. I might be misunderstanding (I probably am).--^{Яειм 's} Talk 03:33, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

My personal opinion regarding separate tables for different races is that it would be longer, more redundant, and more distracting than the current single table is confusing. But if an admin wants to make an executive decision about it I won't complain. I think, though that the tables are sufficiently understandable as long as the race-dependant rows are color coded like on the Windmill page. Another thought I had was about whether load time should be included for life or life-type skills.

ZRoc: I was thinking of just leaving out the Novice level when it's unusable, but I suppose it can be put in with "-" in all the rows if people think that's really necessary.

Dramartistic: 6 was just a number I pulled out of my ass, so to speak, but the point was that while having stat gain per level doesn't make the Refining table feel crowded, it would on the Windmill table. --Inemnitable 04:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok maybe something like this? User:Inemnitable/Skill Table Example - Obviously real skill tables wouldn't be nearly as crowded but this is to show off the proposed order of rows. On a side note, I would get this skill in a heartbeat.

I don't mind which you use for novice skill ranks except that if it's missing because it's unusable then add a short sentence above the table stating "Novice skill level not shown as it cannot be used." or something like that. Just so people who don't read the whole skill page dont get confused. Your colors for the rows are going to be the same for each individual race (Elf = yellow, Human = brown, Giant = green) and race combination (Human/Giant = blue, Human/Elf = pink)? At least that's what it looks like and I think that's a good idea. Otherwise, can it be split into 2 as its a bit long to keep the top header in view on even my average sized screen. --ZRoc (Talk) 07:19, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah my idea was consistent color-coding for races to reduce confusion. I tried to pick colors that were easily distinguishable from each other and which didn't present readability problems as a background for black text. As for the table length, it's not like any real skill table would be that long, so that shouldn't be an issue. I just wanted to cover every type of attribute I could think of so that there would be a precedent for order. Also I don't see any reason why a clarifying sentence regarding presence or absence of Novice rank details isn't possible. --Inemnitable 09:50, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

In that case I have no problems with it, in fact, I really like it XD --ZRoc (Talk) 10:30, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay, Combat Mastery ought to be the most complicated table as far as races go. I went ahead and reformatted it so see how you think it looks. --Inemnitable 02:28, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Uhmmm, that ended up looking more confusing than I thought it would and its harder to look-up each race's data than the original race seperated tables were. Your example page looked a lot less confusing but then not as many rows were divided into seperate races or race combinations (that was my own fault, as I should have realised this might occur). Grouping together more rows belonging to a particular race may help but the rows for all races (white) and any race combination rows (Human/Elf or Human/Giant) are going to be out of place. At the moment, I'm thinking the individual race tables are a better idea. Also, pray another player race is never added or that table would really be confusing and long.

By the way, there was a pet table included before you edited the Combat Mastery page, why was it removed (I'm not saying it should be there but am wondering if it was or wasn't needed)? --ZRoc(Talk) 03:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I still think having separate tables for each race made the page excessively long and kind of terrible looking. Anyway, I tried to group similar things by race where it seemed reasonable to do so. I originally had Human Str, Elf Str, Giant Str, Human Dex, Elf Dex, Giant Dex, but that just ended up making a mezmerizing sequence of colors, so I went ahead and grouped that section by race. I deleted the pet table because it was the same as the human table, which I think is what most any reasonable person would assume. Also I doubt many if any people actually care about the exact bonuses for their pets and even if they do, I think it's better to just make a note on the main pet page saying their skills take human details when there is race variance.

Ok, I see what you mean about the pet table and agree, anyway it can always be put back if others really think it's necessary. As for your table, I still like it (the color coding is still a good idea in my opinion) but the amount of info that particular table has makes it confusing as compared to the seperate tables. Note, that redundancy is not always a problem, in particularly if the redundancy makes it easier to understand something. However, I'm not against using it but still think the seperate tables are less confusing. If you don't see a problem with that then I'll live with your version but please get others to agree. At least get Angevon to agree so there's no executive decision to remove it later on, after you've gone to all the work of changing other skill page's data tables over to this format. --ZRoc (Talk) 02:25, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

P.S. if the page is too long with seperate tables then they could be changed to either hidden text boxes or collapsible tables however that isn't an ideal solution either. --ZRoc (Talk) 02:29, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

I think it might be easier to tell what's going on if you put all the same race info together in the table. I know that ruins the order of things in the table, and it also pretty much accomplishes the same as having three separate tables, but as it is it looks complicated to me. If you'd like more opinions, you might want to ask on the forums. Aside from me, ZRoc, and Dramartistic, not many people look here on the Q&A unforunately. --- Angevon (Talk) 15:28, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Q87

Would anyone mind if I changed up the set-up for Gloves List so that it has a "restrictions" column more like Hats List. The racial and gender separations that we have now make the list look messy. If people like it the way it is I'll leave it alone though. --- Angevon (Talk) 02:30, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Do you intend to keep the tables seperated by race restrictions and use the restriction column for gender restrictions only? If the restriction column is for gender only (unisex, male only, female only) then it works really well as a list that can be sorted. In a single restricted race table, if the gloves are entered alphabetically but grouped as the 4 main types (by defense and protection), i.e., weaving gloves (0 and 0), light gloves (1 and 0), heavy gloves (1 and 1) and special gloves (>1 and/or >1), then people can use the sort button to see them by gender groups. For example, in a race table such as "Elf and Human Only", which has 3 of the glove types, the first group of gloves would be light gloves (from a to z), followed by heavy gloves (from a to z) and finally by special gloves (from a to z). However, in the "No Limitations" table ("No Race Limitations" would be clearer though) you would have the first group as weaving gloves (from a to z), followed by light gloves (from a to z) and finally by heavy gloves (from a to z). If the restriction column was to contain other limitations (cannot be dyed, cannot be repaired, etc.) then there would be no point in making it sortable. --ZRoc (Talk) 03:20, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking one table with one column for "Race Restrictions" and one column for "Gender Restrictions". --- Angevon (Talk) 03:34, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Heh, that would work as well. It would be a long table but it would still be shorter than having it broken up into smaller tables on the same page, as it is now. No mucking about with table sub-headings, people can sort it by race or gender restriction and not such a mess to look at, seems like a good idea. --ZRoc (Talk) 06:55, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Here's the current look: User:Angevon/Gloves_List. Should I separate out Light, Heavy, and Weaving, and Special gloves into separate tables, or keep everything together? --- Angevon (Talk) 20:35, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

The example table you created looks good to me =3

I'm not sure about how many tables should be created. Maybe seperate the the Weaving Gloves and keep the rest in a single table, where the Light, Heavy and Special Gloves are grouped together, with each group in alphbetical order? If that makes the latter table too long then do make the 4 seperate tables you suggested. Considering more gloves will be added in future then those 4 tables would be easier to navigate than either 1 very long table (all Gloves) or 1 small table (Weaving Gloves) and 1 still very long table (Light, Heavy and Special Gloves). --ZRoc (Talk) 08:58, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay I think I'm done with it (User:Angevon/Gloves_List). I went with 4 sections. I removed defense and protection from the tables (except for Special Gloves) and put that info right under the appropriate section header. As you can see I pretty much followed the format ZRoc started in Q88. --- Angevon (Talk) 21:38, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I think it looks cool but I'm biased cause you used my format XD. Also, I think the 4 seperate tables is best after all and is certainly less messy than the race and gender seperated tables. --ZRoc (Talk) 10:42, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Q88

I have converted the Wands List to look like other weapon tables. However, I've also based it on my example table format which I suggested using in Q60 of Q&A and I would like to make these changes to other weapon list tables. Part of the changes in the Wand List and my example table were made to ensure things would sort correctly in columns, to tidy up the column headings and make the table easier to use. If you don't know how sorting works in a table then note that there are problems if letters are mixed in with numbers in a single cell on the table and its highly likely things wont sort numerically in a table's column containing that cell (Template:Fns allows the prices to be sorted numerically in the Cost column). To see an explanation of the changes go to Wands List table changes but it's a wall of text (that's why I didn't put it here lol).

The Wand List tables dont have the injury rates or upgrades columns because they are all 0~0% and 5, respectively. Instead the injury rates and upgrades for all wands is stated at the top of each table on the Wands List page. The Bows List table would have seperate minimum and maximum injury rate columns and the upgrade column but would not have the "Sword Type and Race Availability" column that is in my example table (it's only called "Sword Type" in the real Swords List table). However, for most other weapons the injury rate range is always 0~0 and like the Wand List tables, I think the Injury columns should be removed. The only non-ranged weapon with non-zero injury stats is the Beholder's Sword (0~12%) and that can be refered to elsewhere on the Swords List page (as is done at the top of my example table). Besides the Swords List table, only the Blunt Weapons List would need a "Blunt Type and Race Availability" column added because for the ranged, knuckles, wands and cylinders lists that info is irrelevant. --ZRoc (Talk) 10:42, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

I like it. Never thought of putting the NPC salespeople with the price. Nice to see you're using the Fns template you've been working so hard on :) --- Angevon (Talk) 15:45, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you XD. I'll wait a while and hopefully others will give an opinion. If no-one bothers then in a couple of days I'll start applying this to other weapon lists. --ZRoc (Talk) 20:33, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Q89

Proposed "Repair Costs" section template for items using Blacksmith Repairs.

So, as I'm formatting pages, I've noticed on JP Wiki that in the future we will have more repair rates for Blacksmith Repairs (a 96%, and 97%) and I was thinking maybe we could use a simple template for these repair sections. That way, when any new rates are implemented, only this template needs to be changed, and not all 300 or so equipment pages that use Blacksmith Repairs. The template'd is easy to use, just chug the numbers in and it's done.

User:Angevon/Blacksmith Repairs: the main template.

User:Angevon/Blacksmith_Repairs_Test: an example of its use (click edit on this to see the coding).

Thoughts, flames? --- Angevon (Talk) 22:00, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Flame, flame , flame... oh, hang on, I like it XD. That's a good idea and as the repairs are no longer part of the weapon info table then, for items that require another type of repair, a different repair table can easily be used. Maybe a template for the Tailor Repairs would also be a good idea, as lots of clothing, shoes, headgear, etc., use that type of repair. --ZRoc (Talk) 23:44, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Q90

Synthesis equipment list

To read, Click Show

I've made 2 formats for a list of equipment made from the Synthesis skill.

1. This one is ripped straight from JP wiki pretty much.
2. This one I modeled off of spawn patterns sort of.

Which format seems easier to understand? Or, suggest your own.

Please note I myself don't really understand the skill and have never dabbled in it on KR. Making equipment from synthesis appears to occur at random chance. I have no idea if the forumla listed on JP have been tested to work repeatedly, or have only been known to work once or twice. I don't actually plan on translating all the recipes there because of this and because 1. There's tons to translate and format. 2. Many recipes were implemented in later patches, but these items aren't labelled on JP. I'd rather not have recipes that aren't implemented up there and have users angry at wasting items on things they can't get when NA gets G9.

But anyway, a format for such a page is still nice to have ahead of time. --- Angevon (Talk) 17:08, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I think first format is better than second one. and Some synthesis random recipes here and here. --Juff 23:36, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I kinda like the second one's layout a bit more but would still use the first one, simply cause the page won't be as long. I would just use a single line instead of 2 lines to seperate the created items with multiple recipes, that would make the table a bit shorter again, also, it would look more consistent in itself and with other tables on the wiki. If they need to be visually seperated then use a pale background color per alternating row of created items (i.e., one row white and the next a pale background color, then repeat, for the whole table). --ZRoc (Talk) 02:34, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

See this for an example for the changes I suggested to the first option supplied by Angevon. The highlight row color can be changed to whatever you want, the color I chose is only being used as an example. However, it should be a pale color so that the text in a row can easily be seen. --ZRoc (Talk) 14:12, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

To Angevon: Instead of translating the JP wiki's Synthesis table (your note in History, on your user sub-page User:Angevon/Synthesis_List_(Equipment), said it was gigantic) perhapes wait till it's implemented and let other users enter them as they are found on NA's server. This would ensure we get the correct recipes (in case Nexon NA changes anything) and use the correct names for items not yet implemented on the NA server. JP wiki's table can then be used for those that aren't easily found. --ZRoc (Talk) 14:51, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay, that works for me. Since there really are a LOT of recipes, I think maybe there should be multiple pages for different item types. Compound List is already kind of a disambig anyway (I was planning to move this page into the Compound Random Recipes List page). Maybe make a separate page for weapons and a page for clothes/armor made from the skill. "Compound Random Weapon Recipes List" is a long name though hehe. --- Angevon (Talk) 01:50, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Would Weapons Synthesis List, Clothes Synthesis List, etc be useful (or wouldn't they be relevant enough) and split each page into random and fixed recipe sections? --ZRoc (Talk) 18:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Sure, except use the name "Compound" instead of "Synthesis" since that NA translation fail --- Angevon (Talk) 18:39, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Oops, your right, it should have been Weapons Compound List, Clothes Compound List, etc. T.T --ZRoc (Talk) 18:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

And now they changed it back to Synthesis. Make up your minds, Nexon! --- Angevon (Talk) 16:42, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Why? They don't really know what they're doing and mostly seem to wing it lol. --ZRoc (Talk) 18:02, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Q91

Wiki_Home/WikiUpdates in relation to Mabinogi's server/channel statuses.

To read, Click Show

This section gets out of control when one of Mabinogi's servers or channels either crashes or lags. There's normally a flood of new registered users to the Wiki, and the "bug" will be announced several times by different users. Is there a clear policy regarding this section? I'd love to edit these things out, but as of now, I haven't seen anything that would permit that activity. Do we, or could we, have a page dedicated to the status(es) of servers/channels to alleviate this congestion and redundant posting activity? Just a thought. Thanks.

-- Jspillers | Talk 06:53, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Nice idea but you would still need to display a section for it on the front page or at least add a statement (with a link to the page) where information about the status of Nexon's various servers and channels should be posted/found. --ZRoc (Talk) 13:58, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe a link on the WikiUpdates page, like "See here for updates regarding server and channel issues.".... I don't know DX--^{Яειм 's} Talk 19:03, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Perhaps we could make a small section above the MabiNews for "Server Status." When everything's fine, it would only have a small mesage like "All servers are online." so it wouldn't take much space away from MabiNews. Anywhere else it wouldn't be visible. --- Angevon (Talk) 01:44, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Here is an example of the page with a small "Server Status" section: User:Angevon/Wiki_Home. The edit button takes you to the Server Status page instead of the directly into editing mode. This way everyone will see the guidelines for editing that are transcluded there. When you click to edit the Server Status page, only the current status is editable (this way no one accidentally messes up the guidelines). Comments/opinions? --- Angevon (Talk) 21:36, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Status Update Example

I put it inside this so it doesn't take up too much space until you open it o.o
(I don't know if it's possible to have anything like that but it's just an example.)--Δκυmσ - ταłκ 23:03, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Angevon, I think that would work. The only thing that I could possibly forsee becoming a problem is not having somewhere for an explanation for a server/channel's status. Maybe we could put a link next to the channel status to a page per channel/server that could be edited to show why that channel is offline? Just a thought. -- Jspillers | Talk 03:12, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I came up with a semi-working model... any comments/suggestions? I'm more than willing to put the work in to get it up. Give me a green light if you want me to run with it, with or without changes. Not sure what to title the server info pages, I put "Server_Information#ChX" ("Server" replaced with the actual server name: Alexina, Mari, Ruiari, Tarlach) in my sandbox model. :) -- Jspillers | Talk 05:21, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I think it's good. I like your general status buttons. I didn't think about having a "more information" type of page. That could definitely work. I can't think of anything else you should do except to make the tables a little prettier. --- Angevon (Talk) 16:51, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

That model is a really good idea but your going to have to make it clear that Mabinogi server info is not to be added to the General Mabinogi News section (i.e., on the Wiki_Home/WikiUpdates page). As that model uses collapsed tables (which it should be to save space) then it won't be seen as somewhere to add info and people will probably still enter the details into the General Mabinogi News section. Perhapes add a brief message fixed at the top of the General Mabinogi News section or the new section, stating all game server news is only to be added to the new section and detailed info can be found on the pages it links to? Also, call the new section something like Mabinogi NA Server Updates so people know it's only meant for news about the servers in NA and is referring to the game's servers, not the server this wiki is on. --ZRoc (Talk) 16:54, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Cleaned it up for you, Angevon. It's blue... is it pretty? I'm not the best judge of such things :) Anyhow, I've also changed the title to Mabinogi NA Server Updates, as ZRoc suggested. If this looks good, I'll move onto the server pages themselves and see what you all think. Do you think that I should implement something in the table denoting events, or do you think that we should continue to announce those on the news page? -- Jspillers | Talk 23:41, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I think the events can stay in the news page, unless you want to make a button for "Online (Event)" or something. One small thing, you can remove the "!colspan="6"|[[Mari_Information|Mari]]" coding for each server and instead make the title for the hidden text into a link to the server info page. That way when you click to "Show" the server name doesn't show up twice. And maybe recolor the white text for your "online" button black so that it's easier to read. That's all. It's looking great. --- Angevon (Talk) 01:02, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I fixed the redundant coding and put the links into the bars as you suggested. All links are live- feel free to browse those and give me suggestions. As for events, I'll leave that up to you. As it's rare that we don't have an event going anymore, having a button entitled "Online- Event" might make the area look cluttered. Most people would probably prefer the events to stay in the news section and I can forsee problems if the event announcements are restricted to the server pages. Maybe we should leave that aspect "as-is", but that's entirely up to you. Making a button for it takes seconds... as a matter of fact, I'll make one and throw it on my test page so that you may see what it looks like. I'll put up a new "online" button right now. -- Jspillers | Talk 01:54, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh what the heck I'm slow :C... Hmm... Should you also include like.. an "overall server" status? Like.. whether or not Mabi, as a whole, is up and running and stuff (unless that doesn't matter, seeing as Nexon normally announces its maintenances, even when they're unscheduled)--^{Яειм 's} Talk 02:48, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I had thought of that when creating the server pages, but forgot to include it in my tables. The best title I can come up with (for that line) so far is "Current Game Status". I hate to include the word "server" in there... if we did, I'm afraid that any time a problem arose within a server we'd see the green "online" button change to something else. This wouldn't be an issue, but I think that this line specifically is about whether or not Mabinogi is under maintenance or updates as a whole, not if a individual server is experiencing lag or a channel crash. Thoughts? -- Jspillers | Talk 03:23, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

How about just titling that line "Mabinogi"? Maybe that's not descriptive enough... --Jspillers | Talk 03:26, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh! I just thought of this. Also add a Nexon Website Status or something like that. It goes down sometimes. --- Angevon (Talk) 03:36, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

What do you think? Model -- Jspillers | Talk 04:12, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Change

[http://mabinogi.nexon.net| Nexon Website]

to

[http://mabinogi.nexon.net Nexon Website]

as the pipe character is causing the URL not to work. Otherwise, I think you've got something really nice there. --ZRoc (Talk) 04:21, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Now it's just making a little guide on how to change the status. --- Angevon (Talk) 04:24, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

By the way, you can use
<span class="plainlinks">[http://mabinogi.nexon.net Nexon Website]</span>
which displays as Nexon Website instead of Nexon Website but then again you may want it to appear as an external link instead of a normal internal wiki link lol --ZRoc (Talk) 04:38, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Also, for the sections which dont need the [show]/[hide] buttons (i.e. the "Current Game Status" and "Nexon Website" sections) remove the class="collapsible collapsed" from those sections and change;

! width="320" | [[Mabinogi_Game_Server|Current Game Status]]

to

! width="260" style="padding-right: 46pt;" | [[Mabinogi_Game_Server|Current Game Status]]

and depending on what kind of link you want change

! width="320" | [http://mabinogi.nexon.net| Nexon Website]

to

! width="260" style="padding-right: 46pt;" | [http://mabinogi.nexon.net Nexon Website]

or

! width="260" style="padding-right: 46pt;" | <span class="plainlinks">[http://mabinogi.nexon.net Nexon Website]</span>

Then these two section titles still appear to be centered properly with the other section titles but the unnecessary [show]/[hide] buttons are no longer there. See Example Server Status Table for how it looks and it appears to display correctly on Firefox 3.5, Opera 10.1 and IE8. --ZRoc (Talk) 05:07, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

All the issues mentioned have been fixed. As far as a guide, all that would need to be done is to change the "status word" in the image tag from [Mabinogi_server_online.png] to:

• online_event
• offline
• latency
• event
• maintenance or
• error.

Every image is named "[[image:Mabinogi_server_(insert status here).png]]" for uniformity and ease of use. If the need for another status image arises, it'll be very easy to follow this format.

All of the pages are set up the way that they should be (I think, take a look Here, Here, Here, Here, and Here. -- Jspillers | Talk 06:11, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

All the back-and-forth from this page and I didn't see your "ServerStatus" page, Angevon. I like that idea alot... with the edit button taking users to a page with guidelines for editing. My brain is now jump-started. I shall begin to work again. Jspillers | Talk 06:17, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Completely working Model here. Didn't mean to steal your stuff, Angevon... it was just perfect for what I needed to complete this. As always, let me know what could use adjustment and I'll get it done. -- Jspillers | Talk 01:01, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

For ease of editing once this goes live, perhaps we should make the image filenames simpler? online.png, offline.png... etc? I'm trying to come up with ways to make it simpler to edit. Just another thought. Jspillers | Talk 12:30, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

How about Server_On / Server_Off / Server_Err / Server_Eve? Online, Offline, Error, and Event. Only the last two/three characters have to be changed, excluding the file extension. Maybe make a template somehow, so it makes Value 1 = online, Value 2 = offline, and such.--Tricky ^B _Bomb (Talk) 13:34, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

What about numbers? Or would that be too confusing? Like.. "Server1" would be online, "Server2" be offline, "Server3" by online/event, etc.? (I'm not going for an order here, just trying to pair them up some way. By the way, you don't mind the edit I made on your maintenance 'icon'...do you?)... Or letters could work too? ServerA - online, ServerB - offline, ServerC - online/event... *bad with coming up with ideas*--^{Яειм 's} Talk 17:06, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I think the way it already is is perfect. I'm ready to implement this if you feel it's all set. --- Angevon (Talk) 17:28, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm happy with it as well. If it needs tweaking, I'm sure it'll be hammered out soon enough once it goes live. -- Jspillers | Talk 02:23, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay, move the pages so that they're not part of your userpage, or give me the okay to do it myself, and I'll put it on the homepage. --- Angevon (Talk) 20:36, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Q92

Okay, so ... some Alchemy Crystals are made from Mana Crystallization skill. I -really- don't feel like making a DeadEiry template on how to make the crystal (I'm talking about the dark gray/green/blue table thing on Iron Ingot). It's simply a mess to work with.

So, anyone got any ideas on how it should look? Right now on Barrier Spikes Crystal I just put it in a "Methods to Obtain" section like we're implementing for gears. Good idea or no? I don't believe any specific rank is required to make any of these crystals so the table there for it only has the required items listed for now. Kind of feels like a waste of a table. --- Angevon (Talk) 02:02, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

I think that's fine. o-o.. It's short and sweet, and gets the point across. A while ago (by a while, I mean like months ago), the DeadEiry thing seemed kinda cool, but now its just getting out of hand =\.... Like on Intelligence Modifiers, the table's messed up >_<, and I have NOOOO idea how to fix it =\--^{Яειм 's} Talk 02:59, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

If there is only going to be a single column then make a bulleted list. The table is just a waste of extra coding and a bulleted list wont be any longer. For example;

=== Mana Crystallization ===

Materials required:

• Firewood x 3
• Earth Crystal x 1

--ZRoc (Talk) 17:09, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I would also suggest having the stack info as a seperate sentence in the Description section rather than as part of the image gallery table. That is, use "Can be stacked up to a maximum of 10." under the items in-game description. I know the inventory size and maximum stacking info seem related to the item as held in an inventory but the size is directly related whereas a dropped item is still a stack and it no longer looks like the inventory image. Besides the image gallery table looks weird with that info in it lol.

Also, as many inventory images are 50 wide x 82 height I would suggest using "width="50" height="82" bgcolor="#000000" | [[File:Inventory_Image.ext]]" for the inventory image in the image gallery table. This would make image gallery tables with only an inventory image look more consistent across the wiki as many inventory images are 50 x 82. Inventory images that are greater than those widths and heights will overide them but smaller images will have extra black surround them to make them appear to be a 50 x 82 image. The background color can be changed to match the images background color but almost all inventory images will have black backgrounds unless they are changed by some image editing software. Only very large items will exceed 50 x 82 (e.g., Fishing Rods) but they are few in number and 50 x 82 seems a good compromise.

See User:ZRoc/abs#Alchemy_Crystals_Example for an example of my suggestions. --ZRoc (Talk) 18:03, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Sure. It did look weird with the stack there. --- Angevon (Talk) 18:35, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Q93

Q.What template should I use for the Enchant Collection books? Not sure how to do those anyways. >>--Linkolin 05:03, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't think we have the mabibook links for them. --- Angevon (Talk) 20:39, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Q94

Tara Shadow Mission rewards

All shadow missions in Tara's castle have the same crystals as rewards (JP says so, it must be true! lol). I know templates aren't 'cool' anymore, but I made some anyway so that this crystal list is in one place, and any change to it will change the rewards section of all missions.

However, there are a lot of crystals on the list. See the Rewards section for Ghost of the Partholons. They take up quite a chunk of the rewards section. Would it be better to link to the page with all the crystals listed instead? Like

• Alchemy Crystals
  • See the Rath Castle crystal rewards list.

That way template use can be avoided altogether. Of course, I could just copy/paste the list on -every- mision page, but when someone makes a change to the list on one of the pages, someone else would have to go and change the list on every other page. I want to avoid that. --- Angevon (Talk) 20:20, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I've decided to go with the 2nd way to avoid messy transclusions. --- Angevon (Talk) 14:12, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Late reply (for obvious reasons lol) but I agree that the second method is better. It's simple and basically what linking is meant for. Templates can be useful but when there is such an easy solution what would be the point. Also, you save page size and remove a little bit of the load from the server doing it this way. --ZRoc (Talk) 17:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Q95 best way to deal with pages that have but still need pictures

If a page has some pictures, but either those pictures don't follow policy, or the page needs another picture, Should I make a subcategory in needpicture, or just add a comment next to the need picture tag? I'm tired of seeing(and sometimes participating in) edit wars over that kind of thing.--Sozen Cratos Focker 11:08, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I've been putting comments next to the category tag. I've only gone through clothing so far, though. --- Angevon (Talk) 15:49, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I've put comments next to Category:NeedMarket when only a resell price is missing (i.e., "resell price needed"), as people remove this category tag if the shop prices are obtained but the resell price hasn't. It's an easier way than creating more incomplete categories. --ZRoc (Talk) 17:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Q96

Are proficiency and UG# really necessary in the jewel upgrade charts?--Sozen Cratos Focker 00:25, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

As with headgear and other equipment that can't be upgraded, I think we agreed that the category pages for each equipment type would state that all items belonging to such a category can't be upgraded and that individual item pages would not have "Cannot be upgraded" in their Limitations sections. As all jewel upgrades appear to require proficiency be at 100% and have 0~0 for their upgrade number then I think stating that on a page or category about jewel upgrades and removing those columns from the jewel upgrade tables, on individual item pages, would make sense. However, I don't fully understand jewel upgrades (haven't used them in-game or dealt with them on the wiki) and therefore I could be missing something. --ZRoc (Talk) 12:55, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

There are a few things in-game that require less than 100 proficiency to do a jewel upgrade. For one, the Vales Great Shield. It has two Jewel upgrades, the first one having a choice between Auto-defense and something else, most likely +1~2 defense (I forgot). The first jewel upgrade for the +3.00% Auto-defense requires 65 Proficiency. The second jewel upgrade for something else (I forgot again) required 100 proficiency.
As for an answer to the question that ZRoc didn't ask, a jewel upgrade can only be done after an item has been upgraded completely (5 Upgrades). Although in-game, it reads "0~0", it actually means "Jewel Upgrade 0~0". In logical terms, jewel upgrades are only available as the 5~5 or 5~6 upgrades.--Zephyre^TALK 06:33, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I was missing something (as in my entire answer was wrong)! Thank you for the info, I hope that answers the original question. Still, a page explaining jewel upgrades in a little more detail than the section on the bottom of the Gems page might be helpful. --ZRoc (Talk) 07:19, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Q97

How does one go about uploading an mp3 file onto this wiki? I've looked around a lot, and by the looks of it, most wikis powered by MediaWiki allow media to be uploaded, be it .ogg or just plain .mp3. In the Upload page, it specifies that files can be linked as [[Media:File.ogg]] but the uploading of .ogg format is forbidden. I was thinking that adding a few sound files onto this wiki wouldn't be such a bad idea, for example town pages and NPC pages. An example of the sound box that I've been working on can be found here, where the "Agnes BGM" is the name of the media, and links to the upload, and the "File:Agnes BGM.ogg" will be replaced with a on/off toggle. Of course, I would love some feedback on this idea from fellow MWorld Wiki'ers. --Zephyre^TALK 14:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't see the point of uploading mp3 files. The wiki is meant to provide information about playing the game and perhapes to keep a historical record of gameplay that has been superseded. An mp3 would use far more resources than say just text reciting the lyrics to a song and if there are no lyrics then there is no information in the music. Just uploading mp3 files, so others can listen to background music doesn't really seem worth the cost in resources. If there is a site with background music then perhapes add an external link to that site? Also, isn't there more risk that mp3 files could contain undesirable code, as compared to image files? --ZRoc (Talk) 09:06, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

You can upload music in flash form, swf or flv format and host it yourself to put on the page. Just follow the guide on my page for videos. Another words you need to convert mp3 into flash format and host it yourself (webhosting only) and put it on here. see this example.--Hengsheng120·^TALK_CONTRIBS 09:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Q98 access to Common.css

How would I gain access to edit Common.css? There are a lot of repeated style="..." in such places as table templates, width-compressed in-game book text, and so forth that ought to be made into class entries in the style sheet, so they can be brought in with class="..." declarations. Particularly in the case of the in-game book text, it would be much preferable to adjust things like the width of the book text, or the size of the book titles, by changing one line in the style sheet instead of every book article individually. I'd also like to do things like shade the backgrounds of the ideal types tables pink for women or blue for men without hardcoding the colors for each table individually. --Lionheart (Talk) 16 February 2010

Only admins can edit it, afaik. Try asking User:Ikkisuki to make the changes you want. I'd do it but I've never edited it before and wouldn't know what to do. --- Angevon (Talk) 20:49, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Q99

Mabbi added a drop location for Ice Spear page 2, noting that it is now obtainable through a shadow mission. Would someone please confirm/deny? Thanks. -- Jspillers | (Talk) 03:31, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

• • Edit Angevon added this when creating the page for the Grundal. I would still be interested to know if anyone in NA has seen this drop from the monster or not. -- Jspillers | (Talk) 03:38, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

• I've experimented several times and I deny it drops frpm the pink Grumbil.

Q100

I've asked this on the Enchant talk page but doesn't seem to have been noticed so I'll ask on Q&A. I've created an Enchant Database based off/same as the one JPwiki has. It's still missing the G11 and G12 enchants but it should be mostly complete for the enchants up to G9. I was wondering if a link to the database could be placed somewhere like the Enchant category page? --Berkt 23:09, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

It looks good and I think a link in the Enchant category page would be helpful. However, I'm not an admin and at present this Q&A page doesn't seem to be used much, so you might want to ask an admin directly. --ZRoc (Talk) 02:57, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think that link will be fine on the enchants category page. --- Angevon (Talk) 17:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)