Talk:Skills List (Human)

Tell me how you'd improve it more. --- Angevon 18:03, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

any chance of adding Zero AP skills back in? just putting a footnote in would cover it, i liked having the information there for character development planning reasons. not a major priority tho.

nice work btw, much better than before :) --Jacobpaige 23:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey there~ I like this skills list better than what's "official" at the moment (under http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Category:Skills). I was thinking you could bunch together the skills (multiple columns), so less white space/scrolling down. Also, maybe we can move "monster skills" into the "Monsters" section instead. Regarding the 0 AP thing, that was one of the things that bugged me about the previous layout...it seemed like extra clutter and an arbitrary category. Even if you're planning a new character and giving it AP less skill ranks...you could end up making footnotes for "oh, this skill gives dex! this one gives hp!" etc and make the skill page really messy. Remember, we're reorganizing to make it cleaner, less cluttered, more user-friendly! --- Nightbreeze 18:38, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Think it might be better to put a "See also: Skills" header on the list, since both methods serve a valid purpose, but not really sure--Jacobpaige 21:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the Skill List isn't the best place for it, but would we benefit from a list of skills by load time? Knowing skills by their load time is an important combat skill, and some people just aren't informed about this matter. --Dasu 18:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to code it into multiple columns without ruining the Table of Contents. --- Angevon 20:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Might be better suited to Battle Tactics in a table layout form with notes as to which skills can follow which other skills. may do a mock up of it later--Jacobpaige 21:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Mock up done, its extremely incomplete and way too large, any ideas on how to shrink it?

Ignore the last row, its just there to make expanding the list easier--Jacobpaige 22:58, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking just a table of the speeds, I'm not sure how you should go about the table of skills loading after others. But, it may help to group them, since a lot of skills probably follow patterns. If you need it for your table, or if it should be added elsewhere, I made a table of the current skills ordered by load time here. --Dasu 23:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Maybe make a Skill Comparisons page, or something like that? I'm really liking the load time table, so it should go somewhere. --- Angevon 02:44, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

The "Only Monster Skills" is questionable. Since Paladins and Dark Knights can use their own kind of Heavy Stander/Mana Refractor/Natural Shield, unless other skills more specific, such as 'Paladin Heavy Stander' or 'Dark Mana Refractor', are added. If this is going to be done, there should be an extra category called "Post-Transformation Skills" or just add them to "Transformation".

I don't think it's essential at this time to make specific links to the transform-only skills. The skill info for the majority of them is really on the transformation's page. Look at Paladin and then look at Sword of Order. Sword of Order is just redundant information that the Paladin page already has. --- Angevon 02:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Tables

This is supposed to be an easy reference list, not an AP table. We can make a new page for skill comparisons, if you'd like, like Pet Comparisons. --- Angevon

I retract my complaint. Now that it's all complete, it looks pretty darn good. I'll add the alchemy skills' AP this weekend if no one else gets to it. ---Angevon

Fake Death

This is implemented, but only for newly created human characters. For any humans created before the patch, it's bugged. --Fracture 10:46, 7 March 2009

These Icons...

I cannot, for some reason or another, figure out what most of them are. [1] Some of them might have to do with pets and quests, but the others are confusing me(especially the gray one). --ΚλεδεΚιτ 18:42, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Thegray one is a shadow mission quest icon. Also, if you look at the first setion of File:Fantasy life club3.png, you'll see some weird unidentified skills. - A Random User 18:49, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I'll list what i know, looks like you got this from a foreign client (at G10+),

Skill names

1. Hot Air Ballooning
2. Insect control(Farming)
3. Close Treasure Chest (Deprecated)
4. Open Treasure Chest (Deprecated)
5. Play music box (unimplemented)
6. ?(Probably depricated, looks like Synthesis)
7. Spray water (Elephant pet skill?)
8. Fossil Restoration
9. Blow Bubbles (Flower Crab)
10. Use Seesaw (Future Event)
11. ? (Not implemented)
12. Use Ice Mine
13. ? (Not implemented; looks like a person sitting on statue)
14. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys (you can put pots on hotkey)
15. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
16. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
17. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
18. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
19. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
20. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
21. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
22. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
23. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
24. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
25. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
26. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
27. Potions (F1-12) hotkeys
28. Ice Mine (F1-12) hotkeys
29. Charge (Pet) /Rush
30. Use Ballista
31. Fake death (Mini Skeleton only)
32. Ice Elemental hotkey
33. Lightning Elemental hotkey
34. Fire Elemental hotkey.
35. Incomplete quest
36. Incomplete PQ
37. Completed PQ
38. Non gold Reward (Part-time Job)
39. Non-main(stream) quest
40. Exploration quest
41. Exploration cap quest
42. Beginner Quests
43. Reward: Gold (Part Time Job)
44. Reward: Exp (Exploration/Regular) (Part time)
45. Reward: Item (Part time)
46. Reward: Quest (C3 implementation)
47. Main-stream Quest
48. Main-stream Quest (G10+)
49. Enter Shadow World ??

--Hengsheng120(talk•contribs) 20:28, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

The elephant skil looks like a dolphin shooting water out of its tail. - A Random User 21:06, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I got it from the NA .pack files. --ΚλεδεΚιτ 20:45, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

oh? they add new icons.--Hengsheng120(talk•contribs) 20:51, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Those elemental hotkeys are alchemy crystals. Probably used for advanced magic via alchemy. ---Angevon 00:46, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Transformation Skills

Should the other Paladin/Dark Knight Skills also be added to that section, or leave them be? Because it seems that all the demigod skills were added in there, and after I fixed those up, I thought it would be only proper to also include the Paladin/Dark Knight skills too... --Lt. Jessie 00:19, 27 October 2010 (PDT)

Question: How do we get certain skills added that are a apart of a Skill Tab (Life skill tab in the case) To show up? How does one make a skill appear in the appropriate skill tab?

Magic craft/Shyllien Ecology/Rare Mineralogy/Hillwen Engineering are still missing.

You'd have to edit the corresponding skill list (search "Template:X Skill List", where the X is the skill list you're looking for) and manually add them in and update the total AP value at the bottom. There's also an outline at the bottom of the page that shows you the format of adding in skills.

Since this is a list exclusive to humans, wouldn't it make more sense to link to the human version of it?

And I think Magnum Shot is missing.

(1) (4) (5) (7) (9) (10) (12) (12) (12) (12) (20) (21) (22) (23) (30)= (200)

Can't fix the Ranged Attack link since it's hardcoded in Template:SkillIcon. But I added Magnum shot now, thanks for the info.

Made an amendment. Should link to Human Ranged Attack now.

Awesome. Thanks.

is the color coding necessary?

Ideally, yes. All it's for is to make the tables standout more and separate one table from the other since there's only a small space with the Skill category separating them.

Not really, especially since it takes up coding and the tables are already separated by type.
Edit: (Noticed a post while I was writing.) We could fix that if we uniform color the tables then put them in different tabs with the Tab Template.

It was suggested that we could make the tables collapsible instead, but I think the tabs would be a better idea.

Do you mean having the skill tables display on separate tabs? If so, then I think a work-around is needed to have tables properly display in tabs if added directly to the page (Unless you plan on just adding them through transclusion).

Why tabs? Then you'd have to click to see other skill types. Scrolling is better than clicking any day.

At minimum, I'm suggesting that each table only have the colored backgrounds for the skill names. Having every cell colored is unpleasant.

All you asked was if the color coding was necessary in the beginning. It would make more sense to only have a single column colored as opposed to a whole table. You could technically just replace the skill names with the actual skill icons itself and have a hoverbox that displays the skill name/redirects upon being clicked if you really wanted to get rid of the colors altogether.

Er...I just looked at the coding for the page and there's a lot of redundant coding. I'm going to edit it so that if it is decided later on that only the skill name column is to be coloured, then it'll be a lot easier. I'm going to be applying these changes to pretty much all of the skill tables.

approx. -7000 bytes from the giant skill list, -7000 from the elf list and -8000 from the human list.

I just finished with cleaning up the code on the human, elf and giant skill list, but I didn't bother seeing if the values in the tables were correct/up to date though. I can also simplify the demi god portion of all 3 lists, but I'm going to wait for a bit of feedback first. (and I need a bit of a break :D...)

The tabs seem interesting, actually. Putting each skill set into a tab to organize it, similar to a filing cabinet. Just colour code the titles with the skills, and along with adding the icons instead of skill names like Yinato suggested. I did bring that up to him and he said he mentioned it, but I thought about it a bit ago, and thought that not everyone knows what each skill icon means, either. Even though you can have a screentip appear telling a person what each skill icon is, or just simply look at the bottom of your browser where it says where the link is being directed. Sure, clicking isn't that fun, but I guess it depends on a person's point of view. I do like the tab idea as well, and it makes pages shorter and it has everything lined up. Tabs are easy to work with, and it's just like how the skill tabs are in-game anyway. As him and I also spoke, display of certain content on the wiki could depend on a computer or web browser. Not everyone has the same operating system or web browser. :<

I also like the icon idea, although I don't know what a screentip is, we can always just make the name appear when you hover over the skill or put both.

I think she means hover text.

But if you use icons you can't sort by skill name.

Isn't there some coding workaround where you can assign order in a table?

That's a good point, Angevon. Maybe just use a skill icon for the Mastery skills? And a screentip is when you hover or mouseover a link or item and it tells you what it is, or when you mouseover a program on your computer/desktop, it gives you a title or description of what that program is. Does that make sense? o.o

I've also made a few changes to the alchemy skill table here[1], which is what Angevon orignally asked about. As for the workaround, I dont know if wiki markup supports ordering tables by file name or not. Also, there are a few issues with using skill icons instead of names. Not all browsers support the hover text option, (The small window that hovers if you scroll your mouse over it, like the daily SMs on the main page.) There's also the issue of the images not showing up properly, which happens quite a bit from what I've seen.

You logged off of Mabi too soon for me to reply, but the orange/salmon colour I chose does look really nice for the alchemy skills. It's not as bright and overpowering as the orange. And yeah, that's what a screentip is, Yinato explained it as well. And now that I think about it, I don't know if the tabs that you and I use allow me to put tables within them like the skill tables. I don't think it worked when I tried to add my journal in there. ._.

Well they sort of work. You can either transclude them in, or do a workaround. It'd be easier to explain if I could contact you outside of the wiki though (seeing as this isn't a forum :x).

Alright. Or I could just look at the coding you have and see how you did it. I've tried to put tables in tabs before and anything after the tab, it vanished and got shoved under the table I tried to create. |:

I've been messing around with the tables, and it turns out that you can sort by icons, but it'll make the code a bit messy. I'll post a link to it in a bit.

Okay here's the link [1]. I don't think hover text is necessary, since mot browsers already show their own version of hover text by default.

This method of sorting is already used in tables such as numerical sorting. o3o.

If you're talking about just sorting in general, then yes, it's already used. However, it kind of falls apart when you try sorting alphabetically by image name.

Oh, that actually looks nice. o: Edit: Now we just need Angevon to like tabs. :<

Looks good and if you want to use tabs go ahead lol.

I'm just going to remove the hover text for now since most browsers have their own default hover text enabled to begin with (that and my browsers don't display hover text properly :/), but other than that, I only need to fix a few more things and the tables will be ready.

You know, you can do the mouse-over with shorter text, Skill icons already have their own template. See Template:SkillIcon. You only need to input the value for parameter 1 and it will have a skill icon plus a link/mouse over.

Oh, I just rushed when I threw the table together earlier, so I didn't bother looking at the other templates yet. I'm actually in the process of converting it when I saw your comment. As for the mouse-over/hover text, some browsers don't display it properly which is why I was going to remove it. That, and unless you manually disabled it for your own browser, the default hover text will display.

Okay, everything's been converted. Now to go pass out :D...

Just finished going through all of the AP values (got friend to do it anyway o3o), so everything should be up to date. If you find any errors, let me know.

Some spreadsheeting has shown these errors (they're on the pages for all races, but I'll point it out here since the discussion seems most active):

1. Heat Buster: Totals here and on skill page are off due to addition error at R4->R3.
2. Enthralling Performance: Same, but error at C->B.
3. Lightning Shield: Same; error at 6->5.
4. Party Healing: 2->1 cost is listed as 15, not 30. Total AP and values on its skill page are consistent though.

Also it's kinda confusing to have the existing musical skills listed once under the life tab, and a second time as unimplemented (due to being grouped with bard skills). owo;

Quick question: If you noticed that the math was off (and for some of them, it's only off by 1), couldn't you have just made the changes yourself?

I would just fix it myself, if I had the original source of the numbers. I thought it may be wiser to bring the discrepancy to the attention of someone who can look them up for sure, though, rather than assuming it's the per-rank or total-per-rank values that are off. The closest I have to a source is the JP wiki's versions of the skills, but I don't want to stick in numbers from another server unless it's known that we have the same AP costs on NA. :c

TL;DR Translation: Too lazy, didn't wanna be blamed. *spammyalt+2*

If laziness was my priority I wouldn't have pointed out the errors at all, let alone calculated which ranks they crept in at. I wouldn't in fact, have a wiki account at all. Are you forgetting that I'm under no obligation to contribute to this wiki at all? Accusations of laziness are kinda rude, especially from someone with a user page saying "I'll be nice to you if you're nice to me.".

The whole *spammyalt+2* should've made it obvious that she was saying it in a joking manner. The fact that you were under the impression that it wasn't a joke, and then started being rude to Anemki because of it, makes you even more rude than what you made Anemki out to be. Honestly, I was thinking the same thing as her initial comment, I just chose to be indirect about it.

“	If laziness was my priority	„

Is that even possible? :|

Selective laziness would be a better fit in this case; You entered the numbers on a spreadsheet, referred to pretty much each skill (I'm guessing), calculated those to see if they were correct, found the ranks that were miscounted, yet didn't change about 10 numbers. The only issue here was with the culmulative AP costs, so it wouldn't matter if the individual values were correct or not since the total (based on the skill pages) were added incorrectly. (in this case anyway)
Edit:That's it, I'm making an Anemki ninja-ing counter XD

Firstly, I apologise to Anemki for not realising that *spammyalt+2* indicated a joke. Thinking about it, I think it refers to mabi expression hotkeys? I don't know for sure, but I did not mean to be rude, just to point out something which I perceived as mean. I put a decent amount of effort into researching this issue (including looking up all four magic shields on JP wiki to see if I could just take their AP values), so it doesn't feel nice to get nothing besides complaints that I didn't do more. Especially since the previous comment said "If you find any errors, let me know.".

Secondly... you both still seem to think that laziness was my reason for not making the changes, despite my earlier explanation. In your case you are now claiming selective laziness, rather than believing that I may have had a different reason for my decision. I'll try and clarify:

My priority for wiki editing is accuracy, so I don't fix anything unless I know what the correct values are. Instead I prefer to flag the issue for investigation.

My concern here isn't that the numbers on the chart don't match the values on the skill pages, it's the possibility that the skill pages themselves might be wrong. I don't currently have a way to check that, so I was hoping that somebody who does (for example, someone who knows how to extract and read client XML) might investigate and determine for sure where the error is.

If I simply changed the numbers so they added up, that'd erase any sign there's a problem without necessarily giving us accurate values.

I don't think 'selective laziness' describes my approach. 'Cautious editing', perhaps? Call it over-cautious if you like, but I still think laziness is unfair for the effort I've put in so far.

I'll take a look at them once I have time.

As for the life skills being in the bard skill list, it's just a placeholder for when g16s2 comes out.

Lul, I was being sarcastic. Take a chill. However, I simply didn't understand why you would make the calculations, but not add it.