Talk:Solo Battle Tactics

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Been doing some testing in this and basically watched every single related video that I can youtube up, as well as the .gif, and all the related videos in youtube.

I think it's more a case of 65% be roughly equal to 99% than anything else. I mean we know that 99% doesn't actually mean 99%. And the point where the youtube videos and the SOG description describes is actually about the 65% mark when you have high ranked Range Attack skill.

Thoughts? -- Ladywinter 21:57, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

i think you're forgetting that SOG works when out of range. i doubt aiming % has an effect on it, it's just timing. --Sozen Cratos Focker 22:27, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I dunno. SoG always works for me when I'm shooting at something that's in my range, but once it's range out it never hits, ever. --Jerl 15:41, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

well then, you're either not actually using sog and are just very good and/or lucky, or you're timing it wrong when you're far away. (according to most credible descriptions of sog(by which i mean the ones by famous pro archers) the farther you are, the longer you have to wait)--Sozen Cratos Focker 23:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I've tried it extensively too, and since g16s2 I've been utterly incapable of hitting anything out of bow range and heck I've taught SOG for years, to people with and without lag.

These seem very situational at best, on top of I'm not sure they work anymore due to cooldown changes.

Should these just be removed, then? They seem more like combos than beginner tactics.

Same question with "Weapon Switch".

I'll test them out in a bit.

Wall: Windmill no go against many mobs. unless they are programmed to hit after the windmill hit, you're out of luck. Doesn't work on rats, spiders, bears...but works on skeletons to an extent...

Wall: Counter+Smash is really just bad.

Wall: Knockback+Smash works...no problems on skeletons, mimics, rats with a Very Slow hit weapon.

Yeah, most of these should be killed due to the new fighting system.

To my knowledge, at least, if something is considering an exploit, it shouldn't be included in the wiki. The nature of this makes is very apparent it's a bug DevCat never fixed.

By this logic, it should be removed, right?

More like AI resets since it's probably just the first skill they would "naturally" load at first sight...I dunno how all this goes.

Whatever it is, I doubt it's intentional that enemies would randomly freeze themselves.

The bug is the fact that unlike every other time a monster uses the defense skill, it never cancels it. Something along the lines of it thinks it should be "running and attacking the enemy", but defense prevents the attack from ever actually happening, so it simply walks into the enemy until something happens.

Based on that logic, it's basically the same as an inexperienced player click spamming on a target and forgetting to cancel or not realizing they're using defense, which would make it, if anything, an exploit rather than a bug. Though i'm not sure it should even be considered an exploit, since lots of monsters have flaws built in to their AIs(like extended wait times before executing skills), which are obviously intentional.

An exploit is just a bug that people use to their own gain. Here's some evidence that shows this is not intentional:

1. Unlike players, if a monster gets stuck in this, they actually move toward the player. If a player has defense loaded and attempts to attack an enemy, they stand still.
2. Unlike every single other time a monster loads a skill, it never gets cancelled.
3. If the monster reaches the target, it will start to 'jitter' near the player.
4. The only time this happens is in a very small window within every monster's AI.
5. The skill that it can get stuck in is not a specific skill, but any skill.
6. Various monsters have various AI that make them seem more 'life-like'. This bug does the opposite of appear life-like.

It's actually because of the last reason that I sometimes question whether mill finish is intentional. It just doesn't look right when 20 spiders are all staring at you in a clump. But that's a whole other topic!

I should also mention: all bugs can be explained using logic. Some are harder to explain, but they all happen for a reason. That does not disqualify them as bugs.

The term "exploit" can also refer to poorly planned parts of the system (Mechanics that work as intended but can be used in a way that was not expected) that are not bugs(Problems in the code or hardware). Regarding that evidence:

1. That's just how monster AIs work, Many of them often alternate between moving and trying to attack, even when the movement would be the same as what would happen automatically with the attack. (It's coded that way so that they can run diagonally if you run to the side, so they can aim where you're going to be instead of where you are, thereby (usually) getting to you sooner; and to facilitate bluffing(walking while Smash is loaded to make it look like Defense, standing still while Defense is loaded to make it look like WM or Counter, etc.))
2. Ok, that one could support the bug theory. I have several possible explanations for that, but at least one of them could arguably be a bug/exploit.
3. The "jitter" is just from the monster repeatedly walking when it's already at the destination. Basically, it's jogging in place, which looks pretty snazzy since the model is repeatedly displaying the beginning of the walk animation and returning to the standing pose(and the running/walking animations are designed for continuous movement, so they look weird starting, and/or stopping). This alleged "bug" is not the only time such "jitter" occurs, and players can produce a similar "jitter" by repeatedly clicking the ground directly below them, tho it's harder to do now than it used to be.(It seems players now have a minimum distance for movement. I don't know when it was added but it was not there when the game came out. I assume monsters/pets/npcs are not affected this restriction.)
4. That one does not support the theory that it's a bug. In fact, it could even support the theory that it's intentional.
5. That could be due to copy/pasting most of the AI instructions and details (which I assume they do to make the extra delays after loading skills consistent for everything the monster does)
6. That's pretty subjective. This makes the monster occasionally behave like a confused or unskilled button-mashing player. One could argue that, in a game with Mabi's graphics, monsters don't get much more life-like than a monster that simulates a player experiencing nerd rage after misunderstanding the controls.

TL/DR: 1, 3 & 4: irrelevant; 6: moot point; 2 & 5: valid, but not conclusive.

"Whole other topic": WM finish is a good example of an exploit that's probably not a bug.

Note: I'm not saying this I think it's completely intentional, but I don't really think it should be treated as a bug unless a Nexon representative actually said it's a bug, since it's been around for ever, so Nexon and Devcat definitely know about it, and, some details of it have been changed at least once in the past, so I'm pretty sure they could have fixed it if they wanted too. IIRC, it only works on certain monsters, and works less or not at all on stronger monsters in the same category, and the frequency/usability of this phenomenon changes just about every time there's an update to the AIs(which also makes it seem possible that it's intentional).

Also, even though I'm not sure this is a bug, I'm not sure this should be kept in the page either. If there was a vote on weather or not to remove it, i'd probably be neutral.

Time for a new list!

1. A bug by definition is a feature that does not work as intended. A bug can be an exploit, while a trick can be a feature. This doesn't mean it can't be ignored, though.
2. If we want to talk about bugs that have been around forever, how about the dungeon party chat bug with CC'ing? I can't buy that horribly unintuitive exploit is intentional.
3. Simulating "nerd rage" until the next maintenance (aka days to weeks straight) does not equate to life-like. Just no!
4. The fact that the frequency/usability of it keeps changing indicates that they either
   1. Are changing other things that just happen to affect this bug or
   2. Can't figure out how to fix it
5. Given the... traits of pet AI, I'm inclined to believe they haven't been able to fix it without causing other issues. And because it's "rare", it's very low priority for them.
6. A vote would be fine. Even though I'm quite sure it's a bug, I don't actually care if it's kept on the page. I just brought it up for the people who do care to decide!

Now that the talk paged is "cleaned up", we can start talking about the actual page!

After looking at the history and doing a small amount of clean up myself, it's become apparent that any attempt to add in all the "basic" tactics under the current definition here would bloat the page a massive amount. As such, we need to agree on some standard on how we're going to organize all this.

To start, I propose we separate the tactics into two main categories: basic and advanced.

The basic tactics would only include the most critical moves from each discipline; i.e. N+Defend, Ice+Counter, Ranged+Counter.

The advanced tactics would be divided into categories and separate pages, similar to weapons.

Let the discussion begin!

Don't put it in a separate page. Leave it all on a single page.

If you don't like my proposal, please propose something yourself (or at least say why!). As it currently stands, there are hundreds of "solo tactics" that players can use, not even considering complex combos. A move that isn't even mentioned is Assault Slash, despite the fact it meshes well with many other skills and is a very useful skill to use.

I cannot agree with the stance that every tactic involving Assault Slash is obvious and therefore should not be included.

Usually it would be mentioned on the skill page. I say merge anything that sounds similar into a single unified tactic. some things still need to be reworded to accommedate changes

We can just make a section on Assault Slash that explains how it can be used in combos. Rather than detailing the hundreds of combos that can utilize it.

Cleaned it up a bit, removed/merged some tactics, reordered so that melee is first since this is usually what people do first when they do not have any prior knowledge of the game.

I believe we should then get rid of all the "tactics" that are not very useful, i.e. tactics where another tactic is simply easier and/or stronger.

This would follow the logic of removing tactics that fit into this question: "Why should I do X tactic when I can just do Y?"

For example, why should I do "1+Icebolt" when I can just do "Bolt Spam" or "Standard Battle Tactic #1"?

Also, the subsections should have clearer dividers, since scrolling down it's hard to find where each subsection starts.

like this?:

Melee Based

Note: Some of these are not effective against monsters with Heavy Stander.

Standard Battle Tactic #1

1. Knock Back an enemy using a combo attack or a skill.
2. Load Defense; get attacked while in defense position.
3. Repeat steps one and two.

---

Standard Battle Tactic #2

1. Knock Back an enemy using a combo attack or a skill.
2. Load Counterattack; knock down enemy by countering their attack.
3. Load Defense; get attacked while in defense position.
4. Repeat steps 1-3.

Sorry, when I said subsections, I meant like "melee", "magic", etc.

Should we put the combos found in the beginner battle class boards located near each village chief in Vales and Filia and duncan of Tir???

I'm sorry, I'm new and i don't know how to go about adding things to the wiki but, why was this removed?

wm + full swing + charge + smash + assault slash

prerequisites: giant, in beast mode

• order
  • 1: smash
  • 2: full swing
  • 3: charge
  • 4: smash
  • 5: assault slash
  • 6: wm
  • 7: full swing
  • 8: charge
  • 9: smash
  • 10: assault slash
  • 11: repeat steps 6-10 till the fomor is dead or you're no longer a beast

Sreth 18:04, 31 January 2011 (PST)!

p.s.oh and if anyone finds some sort of fault with the combo tell me o.o.

p.p.s. i have noticed that occasionally you'll get normal attacked wile charging after full swing, if anyone knows a way to avoid that tell me ^_^; Sreth 18:18, 31 January 2011 (PST)!

I have no idea how to reply to these, so I'ma just edit. It's been deleted, originally, by Tellos, because these might be considered "Spam Tactics". In other words, if everyone posted every combo they discovered, the page would be almost 10 times longer. Since many other editors agree with this, though, it's best to go with the majority.

It's not very useful and damage output largely varies depending on the weapon.

"Magnum Spam" is not a tactic (if you can even call it that) of any merit. It offers no insight other than the crude: "Attack enemy until dead." thought process. I suggest it gets removed. --Takoshi515 -Additionally, Counter+Counter follows the same crude and unimaginative patterns. Should be removed.

Mill finish still works, though not necessarily every time. It seems to work more often when only the finished monster is hit with the windmill. In any case it's really obvious when it works and when it doesn't, and I don't think it should be your sole strategy against a type of monster anyway. --Inemnitable 00:22, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

sort of combined fb+death and ISe+death since theyre almost the same thing, but left out the thunder one because it doesnt state when you have to play dead. here are the origional ones(just thought i should savea copy of annything i remoove)

Fireball+Death

• Launch a fireball to unaggroed monsters. While it's still being launched, Play Dead.
• If you are playing dead while the Fireball strikes, you won't receive aggro.
• Get up and start launching again.
• Make sure to stay out of the monster's aggro range but also have enough range to cast Fireball.

Ice Spear+Death

• Same as Fireball+Death but replace Fireball with Ice Spear--and you must Play Dead while the monster is frozen--only if it hasn't aggroed you yet, of course.

also, "first post, woot!"? jk. Sozen Cratos Focker 01:32, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I tried it... and they aggro you when you get up D: Wuberfeca

I've been experimenting with this for awhile and it usually works, but requires mad timing for the second smash, to the point where I'm thinking I might just be getting very lucky. Maybe I'm crazy but sometimes I think the animation on the charge for this is more of a normal melee knockback than the actual charge stun. Has anyone else tried it? Also, Smash-Charge seems pretty plausible, maybe as a way to get into Wall-tactic situation (I used it to put a friend into a tree for smashmilling earlier). I'll keep trying this, but I'm a tailor and not a soldier so if anyone wants to play with either of these please do so and feel free to take all the credit too, hehe. --Chammie Tea

I've tried doing something like that, but having Charge as a second attack can be risky on certain monsters who have fast knock-back recovery and moves close enough to you that you can't use Charge. I think the tactic with Charge-Smash is basically the same thing as what you're getting at but Charge-Smash is a safer way to attack or get the monster near a wall. I'll try your technique later, g2g sleep xP--Akumo 03:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

could someone who doesnt have nalge turned off yet test this out? so far, I've only tried this on Ciar's golems with dualweilded cutlass, with nalge off.--Sozen Cratos Focker 21:36, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

It says moongooses/mongeese, isn't plurl mongoose... mongoose? like 1 sheep 10 sheep... 1 mongoose, many mongoose :D Wuberfeca

im not sure that's why i put mongooses/mongeese O.O but if you feel the need change it... imma keep it mongooses since my spell check says that correct lol

Well, this page really needed some clean-up so I went ahead and did it because I was bored. Among other things I've mostly rewritten the Mill Finish section, and deleted a couple strategies. I stayed away from the more controversial stuff though (SoG is a myth, etc.). Here's some justification for strategy deletion.

• "N+CounterFire" : Oh so wrong on so many levels. The writing for one but let's look at the "strategy." Sure, it's possible to start loading a bolt during counter so early that the counter animation cancels the bolt's instead of the other way around, but either way, Firebolt at rank F still takes 2.5 seconds to load. Not to mention it seems to be telling you to run up and attack after Firebolt, which really would just be a good way to get owned.
• "finalmage" : 2 second FH load time is way more than enough to use Counter, Windmill, or other preferred Final Hit defeating skill. Not to mention the "you may be killed during this" should be a tip-off that it's a bad strategy.
• "IceMill Counter" : You can't load Icebolt during Windmill animation. In short, another good way to get owned.

--Inemnitable 13:50, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I've noticed that people have been putting up new strategies or modifying old ones, and the way they type makes it either confusing or completely unreadable. Could you please make sure your ideas make sense before you put them up?--Th3Evil5Ponge 19:51, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

This has been bugging me for a while now but recent activities have caused me to bring it up. How many people have actually tried using this on a monster with MR (regardless of the fact that ice or lightning on a monster with MR is not recommended)? Ice-counter (or lightning counter) is used due to the fact that icing a monster forces it to normal attack you unless you critical hit it (which seems to reset it's AI). However, having tried this on a variety of notable monsters with MR2 I've found that icebolt will not force it to normal attack you (it appears that any normal attacks resulting from icing comes from the monster itself simply choosing to normal attack you) rendering any ice baiting based strategies dangerous and/or useless. I can't personally comment on monsters with MR1 (or MR3 but really now) but at the very least, it seems some ammendment is in order.--Mystickskye 05:34, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

nothing will "force" the monster to normal attack, most monsters just usually chose to do so after being hit with icebolt, especially monsters with mana refra.

i always use fire-ice-counter on black succubus and red succubus and it works perfectly. i have also tried this on the skel rags(miniboss of rabie adv) and i got pwned, but i lasted longer than i did with regular fire counter, and did more damage to it.

but it might just be working better for me than for other ppl cause i have Nalge off and rank1 icebolt.--Sozen Cratos Focker 14:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, icebolt forcing a monster (without MR) to normal attack is attested to by several players across the servers and I've yet to see an exception to this apart from the Critical Hit case as mentioned above. Again, it's the reason why it's used as opposed to other specific strategies. If anything, I almost never have success on it against monsters with certain levels of MR, especially monsters like the Succubus (it'd be great to note that nagle on/off as well as rank seems irrelevant). A really good example which shows that it's not isolated to me is the Yellow Succubus of Rabbie Advance. You can Icebolt it as much as you want and chances are it'll take the hit and keep playing on it's lute. If it were just me who had this "problem" I wouldn't speak up about it but from what I've heard and observed, the way ice-bolt interacts with various monsters seems to show that it's an ineffective tactic against monsters with certain PDs. For me to accept it as an effective tactic I'd expect to see a consistent occurrence rate of monsters normal attacking after a normal ice hit regardless of PD level.--Mystickskye 05:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

once again, nothing will "force" any monster to do anything, most AIs simply respond to being hit with icebolt by charging at the player. in my experience(and i have had quite a bit of it,I perfect trained rank 1 icebolt twice.), monsters with mana refractor are even more likely to charge at the player than monsters without it. the yellow succubus does not charge at you after being hit with icebolt simply because she is programed to do something else. havening nalge on/off and icebolt rank affect the tactic because of loading speed.--Sozen Cratos Focker 22:28, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

"most AIs simply respond to being hit with icebolt by charging at the player" which just so happens to be exactly what I'm saying, fancy that. Also note that I can quote plenty of people with Rank 1 icebolt who will attest differently to you. The load speed is irrelevant (short of having really bad lag) as ice-counter tactics work at Rank F (especially so in this case where you've just knocked the opponent down). Yellow Succubus isn't the only monster who behaves like this either. To contest your experience I've witnessed several monsters (all of them with MR2 or higher) who quite frequently choose to do something else after being iced, quite a lot of them having "Fire-ice-counter works" or something similar in their wiki entries. This includes but isn't limited to various Succubi, the Kitty Knights and the Mirror Witch. Generally the fatal conclusion is that the enemy uses a spell on the hapless target stuck in counter. This discussion is getting nowhere though so for now I'll cede to leave it be.--Mystickskye 01:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

casting speed doesnt matter on succubus cause it's human speed, but for other monsters it probably matters. i doubt it would work on a skeleton raghodessa with Nalge on and both ice and fire below rank a. i never said yellow succubus is the only monster that doesn't charge after being hit with ice. --Sozen Cratos Focker 01:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm assuming that this tactic requires rank 5 or higher Lightning Bolt, but I've never tested it without it. I've also never tested it without a blunt slow 2 hit weapon. Can anyone confirm it requires any slow weapon and any Lightning Bolt?

dual gladius r7 lightning nagle off: works Wuberfeca

I'm wondering which one of these duplicates to delete, since I'm not sure how 'standard' this tactic is. I'm pretty sure that cooldown between windmill and counter is pretty significant, but I haven't tried it yet. --Bobagiant 05:51, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I've found that when finishing a normal attack, it's good to charge counter. After the counter is used, its good to charge windmill (since the delay is low), and then defense after that (if the monster isnt using smash; if it is using smash then skip charging defense), and lastly repeat. --Greble 2:24, 27 August 2010

i started deleting some of the repetitions starting from the top down. We really need to break this page up into a few more because its getting so long. slayer1o1 00:28, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

breaking it up anny more than this would make it hard to navigate.Sozen Cratos Focker 14:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

There are two areas where the melee tactics need to be updated:

1) Where the new cooldown for the skill does not allow it to be used as frequently as needed.

2) Where the lack of a load time makes a tactic significantly easier than before.

3) Where the lack of a load time allows for a new tactic.

As an example of #3, you can now "N+Smash" an enemy for a heavy single target hit.

This hasn't been updated since the new combat got implemented. It is very out of date and needs a lot of clean up.

Well, I've done some cleanup, but that's all I'm going to do tonight.

While we're at it, might as well clean up the other tactics as well. already started on Team tactics.

I could probably figure out how to do this myself, but I decided against it and thought to ask. As of the G16S1 Update there have been a lot of new skill combinations, but I want to specifically request one skill combination been added to the Ranged Attack section. AR Spamming isn't possible anymore, and Magnum Spamming isn't as efficient on a Human, though it is still possible. For Monsters without Natural Shield, a cycling between AR and Magnum is efficient, I'd like that to be added to the page.

This page is absurdly long. I'd like to request it be broken down into 5 sections:

Melee Range Magic Alchemy Other

It's actually really hard to do this... There could be so much more to say about how the combination of skills can be added, I could almost write three page loads in addition to the post. Could you give me some advice on this?

... Actually, I might be able to make some revisions on the page, though it won't be much. It should do, though.

I'm proposing the removal of spam-strategies and that all the strategies will be broken down into their respective components.

2 shot combos should not be placed here aside from things that are not immediately obvious (i.e Smash->Leap would be omitted, but Ice-Counter would not).

I disagree with your proposal. As tactics, there's more to sets of attacks put together than simply Ice-Counter, Fire-Counter, etc. It's also possible to create a new page concerning "Advanced Strategies", or, in your words, "Spam-Strategies". Would that work?

I'm not sure how spamming magic or windmill is considered advanced. Due to mabinogi's open ended combat system there are an infinite number of strategys. Only things that are 1) not spam, 2) not immediately obvious.

Well, in short, I would say... Certain tactics are more sophisticated. As Ice-Counter is it's name, it's actually "Ice-counter-ice-counter-ice-counter-ice-counter-ice-counter-ice-counter-ice-counter-.....' '". This is a manipulation of "Push-Pull". "Windmill Jump", as I've named it, would be a "Push-push" strategy.

Are you saying you should list the tactic I use?

Smash->Leap->Smash->Bolt->Charge->Smash->Leap->Smash ad infinitum

Or perhaps IS+Smash+Leap+bolt+IS+Smash+wm?

I'm telling you now that mabinogi has near limitless combos.

If that was the case, all "Magic-Counter" is obvious, and so is any "Push + Charge" tactic, and those 5+ posts should be deleted justified by your reasoning.

Edit: 10+

Magic counter is not immediately obvious because one cannot assume a monster will always rush the player after magic (even though they do). Charge+Anything is immediately obvious because charge leaves the target open for anything. Smash/WM+Leap is immediately obvious because leap is used on downed enemy and those skills down the enemy. The leap page even says you can use the skill DURING those skills.

Actually, this is not true. The monster does NOT always rush the player after magic. If an example is needed, I can post a youtube web post for you.

Under the circumstance of critical hit, kb, and strike defence it will not occur. I don't need a video.

You're clearing the tactics page. Please stop.

I'm removing Obvious/Spam tactics. If you have tactics that go beyond MillMill MagMag IceIce ThunderThunder ChargePunish or KB+Leap feel free to post them. I'm cleaning up the page.

Overall, Tellos, I'm not asking of you to restore everything you've deleted, because you do have a point. Yet, it's also unnecessary to delete every of the 20+ posts there are simply because there are unnecessary words or whatnot. Please allow players to contribute without worrying about losing all the information they gathered simply because of poor categorization. No information, unless learned by 99.7% of players in Mabinogi, is useless.

OMGGGGG. Did you even read the delete details?!?!?!

Again, no information is useless. Mabinogi Wikipedia is a source of all branches of information. Not information about only glitches and how to play the game.

That didn't answer my question.

Yes, I did. It is indeed a tactic to perform a chain of different skills to keep an enemy down. Otherwise, page title="Battle Tricks". End of discussion.

Fasdf. I meant the comment I left along with the deletion of the topic. In other words, I deleted it.

Ah. But, still, deleting information is a deletion of something that might be of use, in many ways. It'd be more useful to create a page with these "tactics" in the category.

Spamming of skills doesn't warrant an entry on this page.

I don't understand how combos such as "N+WM - Assault Slash - Windmill - Defense" is spamming. Spam is a continuous use of a certain thing. Furthermore, there's actually no way to disallow the opponent from fighting back, because there's a slight stop in the combo at one point or the other. There's no way to cause a continuous chain. It's not spam.

Edit: Though, Firebolt Revolver can be considered spam. Also, "Magic - Counter" would be considered even more as spamming of skill, since it only consists of two skills that switch between each other continuously, and it can be done until the opponent dies without stop, easily.

the requirement for battle tactic inclusion are that 1)can kill most monsters that exist 2) can be obviously and quickly chained with itself or another indicated existing tactic and then the tactic itself 3) is not a strategy (not a combination of existing tactics) 4)can be done on any character (all races must be able to get the skills required)

why can't we add combos that are race specific? or at least shouldn't there be a place for them?

i personally would like to share my giant only combo.

The wiki is not a place for users to take credit of everything. Do you see my name signed at the bottom of everything I've contributed? This page is meant to offer convenience to newbies. It in no way has to exist. If you've got a specific combo you'd like to share you can always keep it in your userspace. Thats what I do with things that have no place in articles.

Though, Wiki would usually be more of a place to find a combo of skills combined than a place to learn about glitches that people can manipulate

But, I guess if helpful information gets deleted, one can always restore.

Game breaking glitches are not posted on this wiki. Its against the rules. This page is also only here because the majority wants it here, since it has nothing to do with anything that is officially in mabinogi.

It would've convinced me more since the beginning, if you had said "Just let players invent their own main battle tactics, overall." Since I actually agree with that.