Talk:Wine Making (Process)

Rewards

So I turned in my wine early because I sucked at the minigame. It turns out you get exp from this when you hand the wine to Pencast and he even gave me two Corrib Valley Protection Orders which are shaped like quest scrolls. I can't seem to read them though so I don't really know what they're for. Anyway, I'm guessing the amount of exp you get is based off the quality of the wine and if my mediocre wine (Pencast said it was about the same as store bought wine) got me enough exp to get me to level 49 when i still needed another 30% exp, perhaps if you make very good wine, you can get over 100k exp. Blargel 09:20, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Okay so it turns out that you're allowed to get the "Protect Corrib Valley" shadow mission if you have one of those items. After you pick up the mission it disappears. I assume there's a scroll for "The Smell of Wine" as well. Blargel 09:30, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Then it should be easy to repeatingly gain exp by NOT doing the minigame once and finish it as soon as you get to a preferred age? Basically wait it out and then finish aging. At most is probably 10-20 pts of age, but if your wine was mediocre with like 10 pts or less, then it should be equally good or greater exp if you go 10 hours or something.--Dra6o0n 18:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I believe I turned it in at 19 age, 99 freshness, 80-something acidity, and 80-something purity and it gave around 30k exp. Yes I suck at the minigame. My guess is Pencast will reward exp as long as you bring him wine, but if you give him something before you even played the minigame once, it'll probably not be worth very much exp. I'm done with wine though since I'm terrible at it so I'm not going to test any further. Blargel 09:47, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I made an experiment, and yes, you will fail if you don't do the minigame once. He called it an insult even though there's 100 acid, 100 pure, and 100 fresh, with 39 ingame days of aging (roughly 23 hours). I think replacing barrel is required but I have no ides what specfically.--Dra6o0n 18:48, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think you will automatically fail if you don't change the barrel AT LEAST ONCE. And I don't know if perfectly high acid and other stats are still counted if you didn't change the barrel often enough.--Dra6o0n 18:53, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I turned mine in with 60-70 for everything, except freshness around 98. I was given about 80k exp for that. I was also given two scrolls titled "Blago Prairie Recapture Order" to do The Smell of Wine. So I'd say that doing Lezzaro's wine gives you the scrolls for Corrib Valley, and that doing Eluned's wine gives you the scrolls for Smell of Wine. Jessha 05:28, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Oxidation & Acidity

I'm confused. Does oxidation increase or decrease the acidity? What does it mean by trying to remove sediment as quickly as possible? Does that mean do the mini game sooner rather than later, or to do well at the mini game? --~Shadoe 07:38, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

I know this is late but I wanted to give an answer. I think it's to decrease the acidity, and it's refering to when you do the minigame you need to remove the sediments quickly. If you let the sediments rest in the wine then it turns bad. --Sheep 14:05, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

To answer all future questions to the matter and aleviate confusion. For every stat in wine making, High number: Good, Low Number: Bad. Don't question it, just accept it. Tellos 15:59, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Should this be consolidated with the Wine Making skill?

I'm not quite sure...There's plenty of information regarding the entire process on this page. However, Wine Making (the skill) does not really contribute to anything other than passively affect the quality to some unknown degree, or at least that's what I gathered from looking around. If anything, Wine Making doesn't appear to influence the process, nor make it easier. Kind of a tough decision.

I will admit that the Wine Making skill page is quite barren, but it doesn't appear that it can be expanded in a way to acommedate anything other than possibly simplifying some of the information here to the skill page (Such as a small how-to guide?).

My opinion is that the skill is the only thing logically related to this page so we should just merge it in. It's similar to how we decided against having a separate page for the elemental marbles and put the information together with the Elemental Wave page.

Looking over the page, I think it can be better worded/simplified. Would it be okay to put it in a Hidden Text box should it become too large after the merge?

...Better yet, I'll sandbox a page for it and see where it goes.

The problem is, as Mikaya ninja'd pointed out, is that no one knows how the skill affects the process. Otherwise I'm neutral.

I'm for a merge, since the page isn't too big, but what is with that exp value table. I'm looking at it, and I'm not really getting any real information from it unless it's just saying 106 days is the best for no input exp with no bonus reward. I don't much see the point of it besides that sentence. Looks like something that would be on a user page is the feel I'm getting. The table above it has the good info on stuff that people actually do wine making for. I guess this is all just an opinion though.

Something struck me as I was working on my Wine Making Merging. Where does all the rewards go...? Would it be okay to keep it on the page or should it be moved to a sub-page of wine making? I did add the two titles to the titles at the bottom of the page, but where does everything else go?

Maybe the Pencast page since he's the main guy, and like we don't have the reward for giving gems to npcs on the gem page, we have it on the npc's page.

Well about that... gems can be given to multiple NPCs and also have other uses. The wine from wine making can only be given to Pencast. I don't see what's wrong with adding the rewards from Pencast in the description. I don't think the tables are needed though. Neither of them give very complete information in the sense that we have no idea what the formula for exp or judgement is. We can probably just mention that it gives the range of exp and may give 2-4 scrolls as well, depending on quality of wine.

Saying it like that makes me want to have it on the Pencast page even more than the gems should be on the npc pages, lol. I like the first table, it gives you something to shoot for, even though I think I had an experience where it as wrong, but I don't remember for sure anymore.

So move it to Pencast's page? Sounds like a good plan. wouldn't hurt to put it in a Hidden Text box right? I mean it would probably clutter his page a bit and if anyone is interested, then they could expand the box.

Nevermind, there's already a mention at the bottom. Would everyone here be okay if that gets moved there?

Are we talking about those exp/reward tables? I really don't like how incomplete they seem, though... They look like something that belongs on a user page when the user was trying to determine a pattern for rewards based on the quality of the wine.

All rewards in general, tables included as a reference but yeah the table is a bit shoddy at best. The EXP ones at least anyways. The other table with the calculated values of purity, acidity, and freshness, the age of the wine, and barrel replacements were accurate enough for me.

I'm just going to creep in and say, personally I disagree, the Winemaking skill is completely irrelevant to the Winemaking process, and I would much rather, on a more radical note, dissolve similar skill page, Enchant (which is way too large a page), into separate pages, rather than merge this page. I do not see too small of a page as a problem so long as it covers everything, however, too large of a page is. And not both Enchanting and Enchant Burning is relevant to the Enchant skill itself, rather, it gets trained by Enchanting (that is the only relevance beyond you needing r5+ enchant to use r5+ scrolls, so its the Winemaking situation there), but it is only relevant to the Enchant Burning process. Merging Wine Making with the Wine Making skill would be like merging Combat Mastery with Normal Attack, they have minor relation (you cannot attack anything without Combat Mastery), but not enough to justify a merge.

I wouldn't say it's completely irrelevant, but I do see what you're getting at. It's not like we keep the Blacksmithing List on the Blacksmithing page either. Hmmm, I'm at a lost on how to organize this then.

Yea, all I'm saying is, a small page isn't a problem, so long as it isn't a stubbed page. A large page is a problem, at least in my opinion.

I still say merge. Both enchant AND enchant burning is relevant to the enchant skill. Increasing the rank decreasing the amount of enchant scroll durability lost when enchanting fails, which allows for more tries. Merging also would not create a big page. It would be about the same size as any other skill page, and if ranking it DOES affect wine making, like the jp wiki apparently says, I'd say even more reason. Combat mastery also affects all physical combat skills, but each skill should have its own page. The only reason wine making process has its own page was because there was no skill related to it yet. I'm sure if the skill came out with the process we would have put it on the skill page. I'd say it should go there with the rewards on Pencast's page.

To me, that's like saying we should explain how potions work on Potion Lore page. Personally, I would want proof of relation before merging, not just rumors from the Japanese wiki we have yet to replicate or prove.

Are we going through the merge? if not I'm Deleting my sandbox box for it.

I'm still for it. More information about a single thing in one place the better I say.

I think there's more people for than against it. Let's go through with it, but try to remove anything unnecessary I guess. Also, about the rewards problem, just mention briefly that Pencast gives rewards with a link to that specific section of his page since you wanted to move the rewards over to Pencast.

I'm going to go ahead and merge, then let everyone else clean it as they see fit.

Also, I'm leaving the link to the process and if anyone wants to prune it or use it as a reference when cleaning up Wine Making, there will be something to compare it.

I'll try to prune it as much as I can. When I get the time I'll talk to the NPCs and record what they say.

Can we at least put the Process in a spoiler tag? I don't think the Details section of any skill (even if some pages might be just as long or longer) should stretch the page that much. And I don't see how a picture of the grapevines themselves is relevant to the process or the skill, that's more so relevant to the gathering hidden skill or the grape items' pages.

Did you mean...hidden box?

Yes.

It's basically the same size as every other skill right now, about 1 screen high for my resolution. I think it's fine.

How is it? AFAIK, the minigame hasnt changed, has it? I've yet to try winemaking since the patch.

Badump.

From what I've observed, the minigame is identical and the only real changes are:

• Grapes are sold from Imps.
• You can request both wines from Imps and manage the minigame from them.
• A mastery skill for it was added that does not effect the minigame or wine making in any way...

This has to be added before G17 due to the cooking talent needing it.

Has anyone acquired any detailed info about it?

Why can't it be the same patch as G17?

it could. But. Someone wanna do this?

http://mabinogi.gameabout.com/skill/?sk=1&sk_id=65042

The renewal updates will probably be merged into one season for NA anyways.

Gonna be redoing a lot of the (if not the entire) page later this week(end).

Gonna add EXP values, minimum requirements for collecting 2-4 Capture Orders, Title, and Best Wine in Shops.

Just a heads-up in case, you see a lot of activity here, and are questioning it.

I think we should make it a bit clearer exactly who you go to for each type of wine. It'd help people new to wine making figure out exactly where they should go for the wine they want to make.

Feel free to add whatever you know into the article.

Alright, I reworded it a bit to add in who to go to for each type of wine.