Consolidate with skill page?

Should this be consolidated with the Wine Making skill?

I'm not quite sure...There's plenty of information regarding the entire process on this page. However, Wine Making (the skill) does not really contribute to anything other than passively affect the quality to some unknown degree, or at least that's what I gathered from looking around. If anything, Wine Making doesn't appear to influence the process, nor make it easier. Kind of a tough decision.

I will admit that the Wine Making skill page is quite barren, but it doesn't appear that it can be expanded in a way to acommedate anything other than possibly simplifying some of the information here to the skill page (Such as a small how-to guide?).

My opinion is that the skill is the only thing logically related to this page so we should just merge it in. It's similar to how we decided against having a separate page for the elemental marbles and put the information together with the Elemental Wave page.

Looking over the page, I think it can be better worded/simplified. Would it be okay to put it in a Hidden Text box should it become too large after the merge?

...Better yet, I'll sandbox a page for it and see where it goes.

The problem is, as Mikaya ninja'd pointed out, is that no one knows how the skill affects the process. Otherwise I'm neutral.

I'm for a merge, since the page isn't too big, but what is with that exp value table. I'm looking at it, and I'm not really getting any real information from it unless it's just saying 106 days is the best for no input exp with no bonus reward. I don't much see the point of it besides that sentence. Looks like something that would be on a user page is the feel I'm getting. The table above it has the good info on stuff that people actually do wine making for. I guess this is all just an opinion though.

Something struck me as I was working on my Wine Making Merging. Where does all the rewards go...? Would it be okay to keep it on the page or should it be moved to a sub-page of wine making? I did add the two titles to the titles at the bottom of the page, but where does everything else go?

Maybe the Pencast page since he's the main guy, and like we don't have the reward for giving gems to npcs on the gem page, we have it on the npc's page.

Well about that... gems can be given to multiple NPCs and also have other uses. The wine from wine making can only be given to Pencast. I don't see what's wrong with adding the rewards from Pencast in the description. I don't think the tables are needed though. Neither of them give very complete information in the sense that we have no idea what the formula for exp or judgement is. We can probably just mention that it gives the range of exp and may give 2-4 scrolls as well, depending on quality of wine.

Saying it like that makes me want to have it on the Pencast page even more than the gems should be on the npc pages, lol. I like the first table, it gives you something to shoot for, even though I think I had an experience where it as wrong, but I don't remember for sure anymore.

So move it to Pencast's page? Sounds like a good plan. wouldn't hurt to put it in a Hidden Text box right? I mean it would probably clutter his page a bit and if anyone is interested, then they could expand the box.

Nevermind, there's already a mention at the bottom. Would everyone here be okay if that gets moved there?

Are we talking about those exp/reward tables? I really don't like how incomplete they seem, though... They look like something that belongs on a user page when the user was trying to determine a pattern for rewards based on the quality of the wine.

All rewards in general, tables included as a reference but yeah the table is a bit shoddy at best. The EXP ones at least anyways. The other table with the calculated values of purity, acidity, and freshness, the age of the wine, and barrel replacements were accurate enough for me.

I'm just going to creep in and say, personally I disagree, the Winemaking skill is completely irrelevant to the Winemaking process, and I would much rather, on a more radical note, dissolve similar skill page, Enchant (which is way too large a page), into separate pages, rather than merge this page. I do not see too small of a page as a problem so long as it covers everything, however, too large of a page is. And not both Enchanting and Enchant Burning is relevant to the Enchant skill itself, rather, it gets trained by Enchanting (that is the only relevance beyond you needing r5+ enchant to use r5+ scrolls, so its the Winemaking situation there), but it is only relevant to the Enchant Burning process. Merging Wine Making with the Wine Making skill would be like merging Combat Mastery with Normal Attack, they have minor relation (you cannot attack anything without Combat Mastery), but not enough to justify a merge.

I wouldn't say it's completely irrelevant, but I do see what you're getting at. It's not like we keep the Blacksmithing List on the Blacksmithing page either. Hmmm, I'm at a lost on how to organize this then.

Yea, all I'm saying is, a small page isn't a problem, so long as it isn't a stubbed page. A large page is a problem, at least in my opinion.

I still say merge. Both enchant AND enchant burning is relevant to the enchant skill. Increasing the rank decreasing the amount of enchant scroll durability lost when enchanting fails, which allows for more tries. Merging also would not create a big page. It would be about the same size as any other skill page, and if ranking it DOES affect wine making, like the jp wiki apparently says, I'd say even more reason. Combat mastery also affects all physical combat skills, but each skill should have its own page. The only reason wine making process has its own page was because there was no skill related to it yet. I'm sure if the skill came out with the process we would have put it on the skill page. I'd say it should go there with the rewards on Pencast's page.

To me, that's like saying we should explain how potions work on Potion Lore page. Personally, I would want proof of relation before merging, not just rumors from the Japanese wiki we have yet to replicate or prove.

Are we going through the merge? if not I'm Deleting my sandbox box for it.

I'm still for it. More information about a single thing in one place the better I say.

I think there's more people for than against it. Let's go through with it, but try to remove anything unnecessary I guess. Also, about the rewards problem, just mention briefly that Pencast gives rewards with a link to that specific section of his page since you wanted to move the rewards over to Pencast.

I'm going to go ahead and merge, then let everyone else clean it as they see fit.

Also, I'm leaving the link to the process and if anyone wants to prune it or use it as a reference when cleaning up Wine Making, there will be something to compare it.

I'll try to prune it as much as I can. When I get the time I'll talk to the NPCs and record what they say.

Can we at least put the Process in a spoiler tag? I don't think the Details section of any skill (even if some pages might be just as long or longer) should stretch the page that much. And I don't see how a picture of the grapevines themselves is relevant to the process or the skill, that's more so relevant to the gathering hidden skill or the grape items' pages.

Did you mean...hidden box?

Yes.

It's basically the same size as every other skill right now, about 1 screen high for my resolution. I think it's fine.