Talk:Homestead

Translation Help

Could someone translate the images in this post? I tried my best, but I don't know korean... ~◕Д◕ ^TALK_CONTRIBS2010:12:30:02:27 (Thursday)

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AmLj3FlMjc9fdGFxcjRaSE0xY1E2aHRnNXJBVF9UUHc&hl=en_GB&authkey=CMjl4t8P#gid=0

https://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=tSxsOIXHfrzTepMezThV1KA&hl=en_GB&authkey=CLPGoT0#gid=0

--Mystickskye 15:53, 10 January 2011 (PST)

tyvm! Now, to add it... (Maybe later o3o) ~◕Д◕ ^TALK_CONTRIBS2011:01:11:00:59 (Tuesday)

Categories

I doubt the categories I sorted the objects in to are the actual categories but it will make it easier to sort out in to the actual categories later. So can someone fix it up? ~小太郎 ^TALK_CONTRIBS 2011:01:14:13:22 (Friday)

I've not really seen any mention of "categories" except for those which are decorative and those which are related to production (outside of the really obvious differences like crops and housing). It should be noted, if you're not sure you shouldn't really be making such edits...--Mystickskye 15:06, 14 January 2011 (PST)

I saw in the screenshots that there are different "tabs". That's what I mean by the "categories" ~小太郎 ^TALK_CONTRIBS 2011:01:14:23:22 (Friday)

How do I actually move things after multi-selecting them? I've tried right click, alt+left click, ctrl+left, shift+left, alt+ctrl+left, alt+shift+left, shift+ctrl+left, alt+ctrl+shift+left, then repeated with right click. I can't figure it out...

As it is, the Homestead Page is too long to display all of the templates, cutting off every animal except for the Sheep currently. The root of the problem seems to be in how the page is organized as of now. I would recommend scrapping the template-design here in favor of something like how the Reforge page currently works, with each item linking to it's own page instead. If we did this, we could even go and add all of the Gacha items to their own section on the page (if we wanted to).

It really needs to be semantified, then it won't be a problem. The data is already in templates so it would be a step back to put the data into the page directly.

Someone needs to update the Homestead Visual Representation Graph for the new updates. Lvl 16 55x55 / Lvl 17 61x61 and Lvl 18 67x67

Are those actually considered separate levels? I was under the impression you could upgrade even at lvl 14, does it just skip you past 15?

Edit: Checked, it doesn't count as a lvl 16+, you can have a Stage 1 homestead but still be level 14. So I'm calling it Stage 1~3 since that seems to be the official names so far.

I've figured out what "[Can register more homestead friends.]" means (in the building descriptions), which is how many friends that can be added to the "Allowed" tab on the "Visitor List", and not how many homesteads you can favourite; I do not have any buildings on my homestead (for space reasons), and found the maximum is three people. The maximum for a camp/igloo is 5 and leads me to believe it follows the amount in the description column of the homestead buildings table. I will continue to attempt to confirm.

3 - No buildings 5 - Camp/igloo 15? - House 30? - Mansion

Reading through the "Visitor Information" section, it already states my findings; however, it was not changed under the buildings section.

I'm hoping this has nothing to do with how many people can physically ENTER your homestead at one time... I would imagine it doesn't, and I could probably have as many people as I want, but I should probably test this to make sure... I'm wanting to delete my house.

I'm not sure if it's just me, but sometimes after exiting the homestead, Mabinogi stops responding and the client needs to be closed. Anyone know a solution to this issue?

You've got to be kidding me, another dumb feature added into the game. I'm guessing it was thrown in around G19, if not Saga 2.

I only removed a cactus and a golden herb but they didn't cost me any stones, so it seems to apply only to certain items?

The numbers should be in the data, but yeah, it's dumb.

Add a new column for removal cost?

http://i58.tinypic.com/294nl9y.jpg First the maintenance cost, now this... :/

Yeah, add a new column.

• Homestead Stone (Pon): 0 (doesn't turn into a kit)
• Small Chrysanthemum: 0
• Daffodil: 0
• Prairie Grass: 0
• Cactus: 0
• Prairie Swamp: 0
• Shrub Tree: 0
• Prairie Tree: 0
• Apple Tree: 0
• Wild Honey: 0
• Green/Red/Blue/Yellow/Gold Herbs: 0
• Low/Round Cuilin Stone: 0
• Loom: 0
• Spinning Wheel: 0
• Furnace: 0
• Anvil: 0
• Dry/Steam Oven: 0
• Well: 0
• Japanese Cedar Tree: 0
• Mansion: 0 (doesn't turn into a kit)
• Ladeca: 0
• Ladeca Ladder: 0 (doesn't turn into a kit)
• Christmas Tree 01: 0
• Rudolf 03: 0
• Christmas Wreath 01: 0
• Pumpkinface Tomb: 0
• Large Candy Tree: 0
• Upgrade Anvil: 1
• Berry Shrub: 1
• Orange Tree: 1
• Bamboo: 1
• Gift Pile: 1
• Outlaw's Booty: 2
• Laundry: 2
• Hen: 2
• Oven: 2
• Eweca: 2
• Ewecea Ladder: 0 (doesn't turn into a kit)

So it seems that all level 1-11 items have no homestead stone removal cost, all level 12-13 items have 1 removal cost (except for level 13 Hen which has 2), and all level 14-15 items have 2 removal cost.

It seems like the purpose of this is to counter people trying to avoid maintenance costs? Though the maintenance system is silly to begin with.

I'm also hearing that this feature was in effect for a very long time, possibly around when kits were introduced. Though this is the first time I'm seeing this happen.

I don't think it was in effect for more than a few weeks, now that I think about it.

I built a bunch of Food Kiosks a month ago to approach 15 (I'd gotten to 14 a long time ago and stopped caring), and I didn't notice any extra fees then.

From your list, Infodude575, it looks like removal cost is tied to maintenance fees:

Upgrade Anvil, Berry Shrub, Orange Tree, Bamboo, and Gift Pile all charge 1 stone maintenance and cost 1 to remove.

Outlaw's Booty, Laundry, Hen, and Cooking Oven all charge 1.5 stones maintenance and cost 2 to remove.

And Eweca charges 2 stones maintenance and costs 2 to remove.

So I predict that, for instance, Succubus Signboard would cost 1 to remove, while Cow or Outlaw's Disguise Tools would cost 2 to remove.

Three people have told me this has been effect for a while. I never noticed since my Kon bursts happened way before, and I had no reason to remove my homestead items.

It kind of pisses me off when people know things that wiki doesn't, and don't publicly make it known (i.e. put it on the wiki).

How long is the homestead channel-lock timer? ie. Leave homestead, change channel, try enter again. You'll always get asked to change channel back to enter

I assume it's now longer than 5mins so jumping between channels for hidden weather change is no longer viable

I'd say the server probably checks upon every tick, so it couldn't be longer than 5 minutes, though I have not tested it.

Just curious if the theme was ever changed officially because there was this[1] version and I can't remember if it was default or I added it manually, because the one in the Mabinogi Folder is completely different. I'm guessing either the uploader of the OST site messed up and uploaded the wrong mp3 or KMabi has the different moderato one whereas NA has the lively one.

I don't have one in my KR folder, but every other region's seem to be the more lively one that's different from the linked one.

Hm, I remember hearing that song from somewhere...

If you are hearing a lively one, that one was implemented during one of the homestead updates back in G17.

If you are hearing a slow paced one, that was the original OST for Nekojima, that Nexon used for Homestead instead.

That was an accident that KR did, because they used a file they shouldn't have, that's why G14S2 immediately changed the file to the version we have now.
It has been the original homestead music since G14S2.

Is it me or are my Stones not getting deducted for maintenance? Did Nexon actually comply to complaints and take it out?

same here...I think they broke it or removed it.

At the minute, the table is just too long and it'd be hard to follow what number means what unless you've been keeping track of the columns. I have a few suggestions I'd like to bring up.

1. First of all, including the icon of the item to be able to instantly recognize each object without having to ctrl F through the page.
2. Second of all, merge the length and bredth columns with the proposed icon column (like in the list templates), and just format them like 3 × 3.
3. Merge the ingredients tab with the homestead stone tab.
4. Say Pons at the end of each Pon entry and Kons at the end of the building reward entry.
5. ONLY include description in the description tab.
   • Move the daily kon rewards to its own tab (or add something along the lines of "plus 3 daily" at the end of the existing reward kon tab).
     • That's not to say we won't quote that part of NA's description for it, but atm we just don't use those.
   • Move any user-added notes on the items to its own tab, it doesn't belong in description. > .>
6. If we merge the daily kons tab with the kons tab, then lets also merge the maintenance fee tab with the proposed merged materials+Stones tab.
7. Add g at the end of each entry of the rebuild cost tab so that its obvious that it's a recreation fee and not like, the pon count or something.
8. And this is what I think should be the most important point, and it'd make it easier to organize all of this than do it by hand for every single entry. However, it will take a bit of user labor. Use a style-data format. This would allow us to change every entry when a new feature comes out or we come up with a new idea for the table, and we could also make it compatible with table on each individual homestead item's page's table. I don't understand why it the page-only tables look different than the homestead page's tables.

I like 1 and 8, but 2, 3 and 6 would interfere with sorting, which i use a lot. I'm okay with 4 and 7, but 7 is unnecessary if that column stays at the end. A separate tab for daily kons would be ok, but merge would break sorting. The NA descriptions are already on the individual object pages, so we don't need to stretch the table with them. let's just leave the description column for actual descriptions like it is now, and if part of the description is the same as the ingame description, italicize that.

I'm fine with leaving the description tab for user-worded effects of the items as long as we don't keep it named description. I actually didn't think of making daily kons a separate table, I really like that idea. Also, for #2, who sorts size parameters?. . . 3 won't break sortability if we list homestead stones first. And 7, being recognizable at the end of the table implies you memorized what the far right tab was labeled.

Well, i don't understand what's wrong with calling a description a description, but i guess renaming the column to effects would be okay. For #2, I do sometimes. We could make that "totlSize (length x breadth) \n picture" to make sorting work. for #3, I sometimes sort by he presence or absence of additional materials, but I guess keeping that functionality isn't important since it's easy to do visually. 4 and 7 would be useful, but they'd stretch the table. If we do 8, we could have tooltip text repeat the number with the unit, but leave the unit out of the number displayed in the cell. That would help with remembering which column is which without stretching the tabe.

Agreed.

I kinda started (Template:DataHomestead_Desert_Well, Template:Homestead/Object, User:Sozen_Cratos_Focker/Sandbox)

What format are the images going to be?

Well most of the images are already on the wiki, just on the item pages. For example, Desert well is File:Desert Well.png. That being said, lets write something along the lines of [[File:{{{Object|Image}}}.png|link={{{Object}}}]]<br/>[[{{{Object|Name}}}]].

There should also be something indicating if it costs stone to remove objects.

I'm fairly sure it's related to the maintenance fee though.

Ya, everything that has a removal fee for me has been rounded up to 1 stone as far as I've seen.

So is there any item where the the removal fee is different from that? if not, we should just put the formula on the page instead.

Not sure, it'd need more research, and personally, I do not want to test that.

The removal fee is in the confirmation popup, so you don't actually have to pay it to find out.

I guess I'll add a column for it and then remove it once we've confirmed.

Image stuff has been added.

It's coming out great, well done.

Does this wiki have a limit on the #ifexist: function?

Okay, this needs to be clarified now. Sometimes I've gotten it on Thursday, and last time I got it at Friday; I never got it after midnight when I went to mine stones, but after I came home from school (which is like 14 or so hours after midnight, and we all know DevCAT loves the time 7:00).

It could be as simple as the first time you enter your home after a certain point, the way the incremental kons are.

I got charged on Friday too, but at one point I got charged on a Wednesday. Maybe we should look into this more before adding it to the Times and Homestead page? (Since it will probably confuse people.)

I got charged today, and despite having 11 stones and a cost of 3 it went into Penalty and won't let me pay anything but Pons to get out. Bizarre and unclear system.

I got charged on Saturday... Yes, bizarre and unclear.

Judging by everyone's results, there's a few possibilities that should be looked into:

1) The weekly maintenance occurs based on when the homestead was created.

2) The weekly maintenance occurs starting a week after the first maintenance item was built.

3) The weekly maintenance occurs on variable days depending on partial maintenance costs.

It seems I get charged every Friday night. I removed the specific time from the main article because it is obviously incorrect for many people.

Is that their real name? Because its not in their item description.

That's what they're called in the confirmation popup when you're removing an object.

How much do those stack? Up to 10 as well?

Should the price of installing something using the "kit" obtained from destroying it be added to the tables?

Isn't the price for uninstalling, not reinstalling?

Either way, yes, it should be included but I think everyone's being lazy waiting for it to be translated before digging through it.

Well to be honest, I think it's moreso that people don't know they exist. People don't usually create something only to later delete it wasting stones and materials so. . .

Just checked, uninstalling doesn't take any gold or homestead stones.

Nevermind adding it to the charts, it looks like it's the same price for items of the same category.

Capitals for the word "homestead" isn't consistent. Should we follow the game and capitalize everything or lowercase it where necessary?

I'd say capitalize everything that the game does.

The game capitalizes a lot of words, especially those at the beginning of the sentence. ^^

I'd go with only capitalizing the proper nouns.

For those who need help with when to capitalize, refer to this. ^^

It was fine as it was as long as it was clearly understandable.

It seems hypocritical to obsess over the subject of the article itself being overly capped when large chunks of the article itself have every other word in caps, and since the entire article is presented in bullet point form trying to apply paragraph logic to it is somewhat silly. Capitalization was mostly used in this monstrosity to emphasize keywords for lazy skimmers.

One could also argue that since every link to pages in the wiki itself are capitalized by default there's nothing wrong with the subject of the article itself to be capitalized on its own page, since it would be capitalized on any other page referring back to it. The vast majority of pages treat their subject material as a proper noun within the page anyhow, hell, look at Potion Making, it self capitalizes the skill name 4 out of 5 times in it's details, and most skills follow similar suit. Even the Bank article has a whole section where it's self capitalized.

Skill names are a bad example, they're names.

Instead of doing what's most common, it's best to do what's correct. If everywhere else has it, then we just have to correct everywhere else too.

Who are you to adjudicate whether it's right or wrong just because it's not the way it'd be done in an unrelated form of media?

There's a different standard and interpretation of that standard for virtually everything so trying to claim one way is "more" right is silly. You'll never enforce anything so pointless in a wiki so perhaps you should just get over the immaterial and focus energy on actual content and accuracy.

UnLesS somEone iS doInG tHis i doN't thiNk wE reAlLy cAre.

All this over Zugon's simple question regarding capitalization...seriously?

“	UnLesS somEone iS doInG tHis i doN't thiNk wE reAlLy cAre.	„

So why exactly did you get involved in this discussion to begin with?

“	You'll never enforce anything so pointless in a wiki so perhaps you should just get over the immaterial and focus energy on actual content and accuracy	„

WhataboutpeoplewithOCD? If you're going to assume that a person would never enforce something so "pointless", then why post a reply about it then? At this point, it just sounds like you're bashing Zugon because quite honestly, this discussion should have ended shortly after Kevin gave that link.

A pronoun is a pronoun, so every Homestead should be capitalized in my opinion.

I think "homestead" is technically a common noun. It refers to a type of map rather than naming a specific one.

One also capitalizes a common noun when using that as a direct surrogate for the entity.

For example;

Excuse me, Counselor? Mr. President, what do you think of that? Thanks, Mom!

Counselor & President are both common nouns, but serving as a surrogate for a specific. Even mom and dad get that capitalization treatment when used as such and they're as common as mud.

With references to Homestead being used as a reference to the archetype in this article it's really not as inappropriate as Zugon seems to feel.

See the reference Ikkisuki posted, it even agrees; Common nouns may be capitalized when used as names for the entire class of something. Example: Some feel that Man is destined for outerspace!

Which is exactly why "your homestead" should not be capitalized.

Permissions

Some objects have the option of who can access/use them. To set access rights, click on the object in Edit Mode and select View Information. To set Visitor access rights for your homestead, click on Homestead Entrance in Edit Mode and select View Information. There are 4 different Authorization Settings: Anyone, Owner, Owner's Friends, and Guild Members. It is possible to select both Owner's Friends and Guild Members at the same time. You do not need be present on your Homestead for another person to use your tools.

Is it nexon's fault/corruption? Is it a bug and glitch? Why is this part article keep getting deleted and not being available at all in wiki database?

There are no bugs with permission settings for a Homestead at the moment, unless that's not what you're trying to say.

01:27, 8 May 2013‎ Zugon (36,689 bytes) (-318)‎ . . (That's already there, a bit lower on the page.)

Stop trying to put back things that are already there. Read the page. Permissions has it's own in depth explanation in it's own heading/category.

Permissions Some objects have the option of who can access/use them. There are 4 different Authorization Settings: Anyone, Owner, Owner's Friends, and Guild Members. To set access rights, click on the object in Edit Mode and select View Information and adjust Authorization Settings. It is possible to select both Owner's Friends and Guild Members at the same time, the other options are mutually exclusive. You do not need be present on your Homestead for another person to use your tools if they have the necessary permission.

Permission for who may enter the homestead is based on the Homestead Entrance's authorization settings. To set access rights, click on the object Homestead Entrance in Edit Mode and select View Information and adjust Authorization Settings.

Permissions

• Some objects have the option of who can access/use them.

• To set access rights, click on the object in Edit Mode and select View Information.

• Setting who may enter the homestead is done similarly on the Homestead Entrance. Click Homestead Entrance in Edit Mode and select View Information. There are 4 different Authorization Settings: Anyone, Owner, Owner's Friends, and Guild Members.

• There are 4 different Authorization Settings: Anyone, Owner, Owner's Friends, and Guild Members.

• It is possible to select both Owner's Friends and Guild Members at the same time.

• To set access rights, click on the object in Edit Mode and select View Information and adjust Authorization Settings.

• You do not need be present on your Homestead for another person to use your tools.

Accessing

• You may not change channels while in your Homestead.

• To change option for homestead entrance and to set access rights, click on the object called Homestead Entrance in Edit Mode and select View Information. You can change Authorization Setting for your homestead this way. There are 4 different Authorization Settings: Anyone, Owner, Owner's Friends, and Guild Members.

• You may not use Continent Warp while in your Homestead.

• You may not enter your Homestead while the Log Off penalty is applied.

Accessing

Security settings available to prevent and allow certain players from permission entering is based on the Homestead Entrance's authorization settings.

So apparently, Nexon decided to present this...

The description at the top of the Ornaments section doesn't have info on the how the new kon generators(Flowerpot, Gift Pile, Laundry, Outlaw's Disguise Tools and Outlaw's Booty) stack.

THIS seriously needs to be simplified. No one (except the bored) is going to spend their time reading that entire wall.

I was thinking the same, I wanted to add the info about failing to pay maintenance fees and I decided to just lob it at the bottom of the page...

I agree on this problem, but I think top priority should be redoing the tables, it looks way too confusing at the minute and if you don't keep track of which column is what you get your numbers confused. Also, it's harder to navigate through items if it only says its name and not also it's icon.

And apparently the cure for this is to remove whole other sections and add them to it? Clever.

Does kind of fall under details... Unless it goes as a subsection of Details.

"Details" is rather vague though considering the sheer amount of detail on that puppy. If there are recognizable sections or subsections it needs to be divided out for the sake of readability or it's just an endless list for the sake of having an endless list.

I'd rather remove details and add smaller headers.

Seconded.

Don't care what we do.

So... when will the change be implemented?

I just winged it, since no one else seemed inclined to.

Let the flurry of editing begin.