Talk:Stats and Skills

New format = Great

I love this new format. The only problem I can see, however, is that the sortable tables are basically useless. It would be better, in my opinion, if it sorted Total rather than just the current rank's addition. ~Zallist 14:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I just kind of went with the flow of the first similar table that was made on the page. Sortability removed until someone finds a good way to implement it here. --ChibiMoogle 15:58, 12 August 2009 (CST)

Health

Only Giants can get Windbreaker, so someone needs to add the Human/Elf totals for Health. ---Angevon 16:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I must not have read that it was Giant Only. I believe I've fixed the Will/HP totals accordingly. --ChibiMoogle 15:45, 12 August 2009 (CST)

Ranald's Classes

Anyone know if Ranald's training classes provide a permanent stat boost or not? If so perhaps they can be added onto this page too. -- Lostnumber 23:40, 19 Sept 2009 (PST)

Yeah, they're permanent. -- Mabiwar

Since you added the classes, what about books? I'm pretty sure there are some books that give permanent stat boosts too. --ChibiMoogle

"Potential" stats

What is this really implying? Is it bonus stats from aging/leveling? --Bryanneo 14:36, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

It's the total value when including unreleased skills/uncapped ranks. --Duet 14:45, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Its pretty confusing to me and probably a lot of other people. So I am going to add a note saying that the potential stats is the grand total of all skills released and unreleased.--Marthian 02:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I took the liberty of removing those stats. Most potential stats are out-of-date and will never be accurate because Nexon adds more skills before uncapping. Kuxir (talk) 01:48, 4 July 2014 (PDT)

Color for Alchemy Skills?

So I was gonna change the color for the alchemy skills that are now implemented... but I realized I've no idea what color I should make them. Anyone have thoughts? We can't exactly just leave them grey. --Inemnitable 03:29, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Orange, perhaps? ███ --Jαy 03:39, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Combat Power already uses a slightly different shade of orange: ███ Might as well keep things consistent? --Duet 03:54, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Looks good to me. I didn't think to look there for precedent. --Inemnitable 04:38, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Table Options

I know on some tables in the wiki, you can click a button, and it will sort the items in the table alphabetically, or by some other pattern. Maybe someone could implement this here for lowest to highest stat efficiency at r1, or highest to lowest? I think it may be useful.Th3Evil5Ponge 17:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

I actually had the tables sortable when I first made them, but this proved to not work the way like I think you want them. Something like that would need a completely different table set up. It also wouldn't really be compatible with having the skills sorted by what race can use them as it is now. On the other hand, if someone can figure out how to do it with one table I'll duplicate it across the rest. --ChibiMoogle 07:51, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Color for Martial Arts Skills

With these new skills on the horizon, does anyone have any ideas on what color they should be on these tables? The skill icons look grey or silvery, but since we're using that for unreleased skills and ranks that won't do very well... --ChibiMoogle 02:57, 30 Dec 2011 (UTC)

We only use that for Gold Strike and that's because it's neither Archery nor Melee but it's in the Combat tab and has a red background. We can just change Gold Strike's color and use gray for Martial Arts. -- Pyro - (Talk) -- 20:20, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

What would we use for unreleased skills, then, if Martial Arts hogged the grey background? -Akira 20:25, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, we don't use gray for unreleased skills, however, why not just some light purple or something? Not like Dark Knight skills will ever give stats. -- Pyro - (Talk) - 21:09, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

This seems like it needs an update, and is anyone here up for that challenge, I would but I do not have enough time on my hands as I used to.--Aubog007 02:19, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm assuming the +1 str/dex/int/wil/lck from each command lvl up is permanent. Someone wanna put that in somewhere?

I don't think it's worth it. This page works best as a single resource for all the "weird" sources of stat boosts like skills, talents and arcana - since there's a lot of them and having all this information on one page is really useful for them. Command Level is just a simple +15 everything, and it doesn't need so much care.

Considering Quest-rewards are included, Command Level should probably be added though it would only really be important to include it at its Max Level of 30.

See the format here.

Basically, I'm not pleased with the fact I can't sort to find, for instance, the most efficient STR skills. The fix this, I'd like the following changes:

1. Combine the tables for each skill type together.
2. Add two new columns, "Total" and "Points per AP", to the end.
3. Remove the values in parentheses from the cells since the only important numbers are now in their own column.
4. Remove the use of colspan as it breaks sorting.

P.S. I'm going to make the changes in a week or so, so please chime in before then.

“	P.S. If no one says anything in a week or so, I'm going to assume everyone's okay with it or doesn't care, and change the format.	„
— you

“	I'm going to assume everyone's okay with it	„
— you

I'm sorry, but that phrase alone makes me want to punch you. If no one comments, literally no one cares, final.

On the other hand, I do agree that it's hard to navigate through the current templates and it's a pain in the butt for me when I go mobile.

Boom, nicer wording.

Just remember to note that your listed "Points Per AP" still only refer to "Stats/AP efficiency of said skill at Rank 1". Besides the blinding colors mushed together, seems fine xD I'm assuming you'll still leave the Quest/Talent tables to themselves at the bottom?

Anywho, thank you :D

Should there be a specific note about it being rank 1? It's right next to the total, which is also implied to be for rank 1.

You bring up an interesting point about the blinding colors... should we keep them at all? Is there an advantage to colorizing by group here? For my 2 cents, I think the colors should be removed, especially since the labels for the colors are gone.

And yes, I'm only taking the existing tables and merging them; I'm not adding or removing anything else (right now).

No problem! It's changes that should help everyone.

For the note - well, I'm just one of those people that needs everything spelled out for me xD;
As for the colors... hm, maybe just leave them in for the first or maybe last column? Just so it's easier to identify what Talent those stats go with ^^

Updated the coloring.

For Stats/AP Efficiency, you could simply have it read "Points Per AP (Rank 1)".

As for the race-only skills, maybe you could put the race next to the skill in parenthesis, e.g. "Wind Guard (Giant)"? That would nullify the need of creating additional tables for races.

Other than that, I think it's all fine.

Merged the races! I'm hoping this doesn't cause too many problems when there's a lot of "X only" rows.

Regarding the "Points Per AP" column, I don't see how it could be interpreted as relating to anything other than the total. Elide/Info/anyone else, what else could it relate to?

Shouldn't Quest and Talent also go under the same format? There could simply be a legend explaining what color describes what.

First step is to update the main tables.

Then we can worry about the others.

So... Whatever happened to continuation of this? It's halfway implemented already...

So how would that be determined? The three main skills have different colors.

Wouldn't it be better to include it into the chart rather than have it as a note below?

If we added Novice rank, it should be added for everything. If we did that, there would be a lot of zeroes in the first column.

I'm OK with it either way, but it should be one or the other.

When I add up the amounts on this page, I get:

MP Human/Elf 887+105(992)(Talents) + 30 (1,022)(Grandmaster Cleric) Giant 847+105(952)(Talents) + 30(982)(Grandmaster Cleric)

which is 57 less than the current total

Int human 1,004 + 125(1,129)(Talents) +25(1,154)(Grandmaster Mage) giant 996 +125(1,121)(Talents) + 25(1,146)(Grandmaster Mage) elf 1,018 + 125 (1,143)(Talents) + 30(1,173)(Grandmaster Mage)

which is 51 more than the current total for humans and giants, and 61 more for elves

These are fairly large differences so I'm not comfortable just assuming I'm right and changing it.

Also I got 12 less for HP for all races, +1 for giant strength and -10 for elf strength.

I'm Currently working on a spreadsheet that makes all the calculations a bit easier for all the stat gains. I have noticed that some figures seem to be off my self.

I made a spreadsheet that works with the same values as this page, although it's arranged differently. The MP, Int, HP and elf/giant Str totals are the only differences I have left after very carefully going through both my spreadsheet and this page for errors (and finding+fixing several in both places). I think these ones are just adding errors on the page, but I don't want to assume I'm correct and just change the values I'm using to double check for spreadsheet errors.

Im also leaning towards them just being adding errors: You seem to be correct so far about the Mana portion: It may be due to the previous total including Skill ranks that are not available. I say go ahead and adjust the values for now and if need be we can go ahead and readjust it later if need be.

I adjusted the totals.

the Merlin, Starlit, and vates skills are not present in the charts. Someone should probably add them in as i am unsure how to do the formatting for this page. Please and thank you to whom ever does this update to the wiki page.

o-o  They are there?

If it's something like Encore, that adds no stats.

Just finished adding Guard cylinder mastery/elemental wave to the Mana chart.

Some things are still missing but meh.

Can someone add the background for Song for me?

Its acting retarted on my end.

It was missing an ending quotation mark. Fixed now!

Thankies kindly. Need to add Chorus in there as well: work on it later.

Why haven't we added such and such yet?

Because nobody got around to it yet.

And it takes a lot of work.

Why don't you like, just do it yourself instead of asking that on every other outdated page?

Because I don't know how!

It's literally copy/paste/edit...

I'm not sure how the AP to Stat ratio or w/e works, nor whats the color code we should use for Dual Gun.

Stat / AP = Stat:AP ratio.

As for color, the skill page lists three colors. Turquoise, purple, and pink. If you're create, make it a gradient lul. Other than that, I guess just choose one of the three. IMO, purple reps it the best, considering that's the only color that's not similar to any that are being used. (pink, kinda close to combat; turquoise seems close to magic).

Oh right, music has purple. Yeah. Kinda screwed there.

Just use a placeholder color for now. And as Kevin said, divide the total stat gain by the total AP used to get the efficiency.

If you're doing most of a chart but you can't do the math yourself and/or don't know one of the values, just put a question mark in that spot as a placeholder.

Added ecology for now Will work on adding other stuff later on.

Would anyone be against merging redundant cells like we do for charts on skill pages?

Please do, merge, if you mean rowspan/colspan.

This idea won't be as commonly used as this page but I think people would still find it useful as I would have. I propose a page in similar format to this page but instead to display AP costs of all skills in one place.

Skill_List kinda already does that, although it's somewhat out of date since the introduction of hidden skills.

Oh thanks, I knew I was forgetting something.