Talk:Defense

Question from Wolfen198 ~hello, im not sure about this or if its any different but the hetero kite shield is out now, and its inferring that it gives more defense than a normal kite shield, is this just flavor text or should hetero kite shield be added here as well?

same as normal kiteshield --Fruitrecruit

• Under these circumstance a Light Hetero is weaker in all ways to a Kite Shield then?
  • Kite Shield has 2 Upgrades and Same stats as Hetero/Light Hetero Kite Shield while the Light Hetero only has 1 upgrade.
  • Kite Shield also give +2 defense and +4% passive defense twice while Light Hetero only give +1 defense or +5% passive defense.
    • Please correct me if I am wrong. I am assuming that Both Kite shield and Hetero Kite Shield give the same Defense when defending *+35 on successful defense*.

~~Suupii

are the defence boosts while deffending for beholder and dragon sheild the same as those for kite sheild? Sozen Cratos Focker 02:22, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

We can just find out after the April 8th patch. The Defense-skill hidden boost for shields becomes passive as of that patch meaning you don't need to use the Defense skill to get the +35 def from a Kite Shield, it's always active.--Mystickskye 11:49, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Your comment is incorrect. The passive bonus is +10 defense for all shields. It is NOT the bonus u get from using defense. I have tested this myself. With my default outfit on, white snakes were hitting me for 1~19 damage non-crit. If a kite would have given +35 defense, i would never have seen damage over 1 on a non-crit. However, I saw a damage range of 1~9, clearly showing the shield only added +10 defense.--Sephiros 06:28, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

After testing yes, my comment is incorrect. However, so is yours. I tested it with a bipennis that has set damage and the Round Shield gives an additional 5 innate defense whilst a kite shield was shown to give 15. The hidden defense bonus whilst defending remains as well, this seems to be an entirely seperate bonus.--Mystickskye 22:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Too Painful for the Eyes

The chart is giving me a headache. Is this the only page that doesn't get a nice update on the graph? Someone please separate the Elf/Human/Giant section please. -- Miyuna

The Charts are now showing only human charts, can someone readd the elf/giant skill training charts? SoraHikari 07:35, 25 November 2010 (PST)

Damage Formula

It seems that the actual formula used in-game is dmg - (prot * (dmg - def) / 100) - def. Source? Standard.dll::core::ApplyDefenceToDamage(int dmg, int def, int prot)

Should we change the formula? ~kotarou3 ^TALK_CONTRIBS 23:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, i ran some numbers and it turns out, they produce exactly the same results. The formulas balance out. For simplicity, I suggest we keep the currently used formula. --Sephy 09:45, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't necessarily yet prove that enemies got the Defense run, though I haven't actively been searching for it. However, I have fought Cessair and they didn't walk with Sword Counterattack, nor were they able to Sword Smash debuff.

*Waiting for non-players to have instant-load skills.*

Its all in the AI.

Do zombies move with counter?

No. Zombies don't have a melee weapon.

The Goblin Bandits as well as Homestead Bandits from the Treasure Chest event a while ago were able to run with Defense.

http://oi60.tinypic.com/264g6sn.jpg

• Small Shield negates 50% damage.
• Medium Shield negates 70% damage.
• Large Shield negates 100% (currently glitched/unintended IIRC) damage.

Which of the Ninja skills trigger this skill and which one of them ignores it, with and without a shield?

• Tested against player
• Sakura abyss, shadow cloak, and explosive kunai against defense with shield activates defense and the defense skill is not canceled. I guess it's like shield against firebolt/inter magic. A shield also prevents the tornado from shadow cloak from knocking you back. Shuriken charge and kunai storm activates defense and cancels the defense skill, and only the first hit of kunai storm is shielded against. Smokescreen and shadow bind doesn't do hits. Shadow bind does not cancel defense with shield, but I'm not sure about normal defense without shield.
• Monsters cancel defense after shadow bind. Without shield, explosion kunai triggers defense, and the skill cancels.

My own test results:

• Shield/-less doesn't change anything.
• Everything except the second and third hits of Kunai Storm, Smokescreen, and Shadow Bind is triggered.
• Shadow Cloak, Explosive Kunai, Sakura Abyss doesn't cancel defense skill.
• Shadow Cloak pushback is also negated without shield.
• Explosive Kunai's speed reduction is not negated.

It seems rank 1's information is different from in game. It also doesn't show party defense or through trial have I heard it changed. Does the party not see the change in defense provided from a R1 defense? Should we update the information? I have +20 Basic Defense at R1 as a human, not +15.

The table states the correct stats.

But the "Training Method" section doesn't. Which seems to happen way too often.

Party Defense exists but its not an in-game listed effect. It doesn't affect yourself; ask someone with r1 Defense to stand right on you and load it, you'll see the addition.

I always thought it was a passive bonus to the party, didn't think it was active. Also, I would have to stand literally within a few feet of them for them to gain the bonus, sad. And are you sure it states the correct stats? I have... +20 Basic, +65 defense, +35 protection while active. I'm not talking about the table at the top of the page, I'm talking about the information in Rank 1 at the bottom of the page.

That's what I said, the Training Method Section doesn't have the correct stats, while the table on top does.

Think of it as Party Healing's defense buff but with a ridiculously small range.

Just did the save my sheep quest on a proffing alt, and no defense skill. Maybe they removed it.

I never got this quest from Deinan, even after looking up how to obtain it.

afaik, that quest was removed a while ago.

Unless you have an older character (and I mean old, like from 3 years(?) ago), you can still do it. You will come across some odd "null" text. And it will literally say:

“	(null)	„

So how much extra defense do you get when wearing a shield while using this skill? Because I heard Vales Shield giving ginormous amounts or something?

In full Colin Plate Armor w/ Vales Shield and r1 Heavy Armor and Shield Mastery, I've reduced a Giant Lion's Stampede attack down to 1 damage. That give some sort of idea of how effective it is?

That's because the Vales Shield reduces everything to 1 with Defense loaded, even if you have Rank F Defense and 0 Protection. The reason why it's like this is unknown but it's being speculated as an unintended glitch on the developers part, especially the fact that a Rank F Defense with Vales Shield renders a Master Lich's attacks to 1. One thing to note though is that it doesn't work in duels. On the other hand, a Medium Shield such as a Kite Shield or a Tikka Shield will reduce damage with Defense loaded as well. Although it's not reduced to 1 damage, it's still a reduction.

I'll try it again with Shield of Avon and Valkyrie Shield then next time I see it.

Shouldn't that be on the Stats page? This skill just blocks one attack and boosts the defense stat.

Does anyone know the exact range? Or if it increases between Rank 5-1?

I don't think it goes up any from 5-1 and the range can't be more than like 50 distance :|

It's EXTREMELY small.

That sounds about right, thanks.

Dammit DevCAT, why must it be so small?!

So it doesn't get abused? If the range were any larger, then a party of 8 could just have 1 person attack while everyone else stays close and keeps defense loaded. The way I see it, the short range is to stop the above example from being abused. As for why/when that'd happen, I've seen people do much more weirder things on mabi >>

Apparently, Party Healing does the same thing, too. And it has even farther range.

Anyway, does that party defense buff actually exist? Its so hardly noticeable...

If you mean the bonus defense from the defense skill, then yes it does. Find someone with r5~r1 defense, get into their party, tell them to load it and walk around and through them with the character window open. You'll see your defense increase as you walk right on top of the player using defense, while dropping as you walk away.

Actually just next to them is fine, and I don't think they need to be in the same party.

Actually you do have to be in the same party. It wouldn't make sense for you to gain defense from standing next to a target with r5+ defense loaded. As for the range, it's hard to really tell, but you pretty much have to be close enough to be physically contacting the defending player for the bonus to kick in.

Tested it with someone not in the same party, you get the boost regardless of parties.

Just to clarify,defending against non-melee attacks does not give you the defense bonus on activation, correct? It seems that i get no benefit from blocking arrows/magic bolts with my fists. with a shield it does seem to reduce ranged damage a bit, though this may be from the hidden shield stat bonus for defending with it. Not sure if blocking magic/alchemy with a shield helps at all.

No, I'm pretty sure defence still works against archery and magic even without shields, so long as they don't knockback. If you have a shield that means Magnum Shot will also not knockback. I don't have much of a say in alchemy, though.

Blocking Magic doesn't reduce damage though, because all these intervals only affect Physical damage. I have no clue about Alchemy though, but considering most of them ignore Defense...

If you consider negating the stun from the hit as defense "working",then that's true I guess. What I mean more is the defense and protection bonus from defense doesn't seem to work without a shield. I get hit with an arrow, then i get hit with another arrow for about the same damage while blocking without a shield.