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Minor Thing
The game doesn't use the term "Shadow Mission" or "Theatre Mission" for any mission in G15, G16, G17S3, or G17S4 for example. So I purpose removing the labels and just using the word Mission for those missions. Being, not use the word Theatre unless they're in the Global Theatre and not use Shadow Mission unless the mission is in the Shadow Realm. (Which would also change the Bandit Homestead into a normal Mission.)
No, we need that distinction there, because there are certain things you can and can't do in each mission type that warrants making the distinction. You can't use Ice Mines/Barrier Spikes/Campfires in Theater Missions, for example, but you can use all three in Shadow Missions.
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not asking to change existing missions like Warden of the Gods or Their Method, I'm talking about generation missions. By default every mission has the physics of a Shadow Mission, which is what I purpose the term just "Mission" should apply to for G15-18, since they do not actually use the Shadow Realm at all. But for G13-14 we still use the term Theatre Mission because that is still accurate and actually stated ingame.
I think you misunderstood what Ari said. He never said anything about the general Shadow/Theatre missions, he's saying that all the limitations of a S/T Mission still exist in the Generation versions. All that's different in G15~ Shadow Missions is that the skies aren't red.
I'm not disagreeing with that, the point is that G15+ does not take place in the shadow realm. Why the heck would you consider eavesdropping on Black Mask and Black Dragon Knight in G18E8 to be a Shadow Mission? Mission being an official term or not is irrelevant in this case.
There are Shadow Missions in the Shadow Realm, and 'Shadow Missions' not in the Shadow Realm?
Shadow missions is just a term for a mission taking place in the canonical Erinn that we normally don't play in, the Erinn where Tarlach is not still just a bear in Sidhe Sneacta.
But you're kinda right. Shadow Realm Shadow Missions give you a separate quest for that mission that prevents you from entering any other shadow realm shadow mission. Maybe we can come up with a different term for the Saga missions.
Why come up with a term for JUST Saga Missions? How is that different than just suggesting the term "Mission"? Also, Theatre Missions and Shadow Missions interfere with each other too, so do Party Quests since that's what a mission is, a Party Quest, just not in an item scroll form. Also, what exactly was your point in that middle line? Shadow missions are in the shadow realm, hence the Shadow part.
The middle line was using the term 'shadow missions' in the meaning of Saga missions. It was originally going to have a qualifier that the Shadow world was also an example of 'an Erinn that we don't normally play in', but that line somehow got cut.
Yes but that would be an assumption, whereas its well established its called as Shadow Mission because it takes place in the Shadow Realm. The "Shadow World" is a specific placed outlined in G9-11 (maybe 12 too?), not a name for anywhere that takes place in a instanced world or outside of the overworld.
G12 has Shadow Realm too, but Falias is considered Shadow Mission and doesn't even take place in the Shadow Realm.
Does anything in the story say weather or not the shadow realm is the same "realm" as the "another world" whose Tir and Bangor you go to for G1 and G3?
To my knowledge no, but G16 mentioned something along the lines that the other world and the shadow realm, along with scathach beach and metus, deteriorated from the soul stream. I THINK G16 refers to them as separate locations.
I thought Cichol told Shakespeare that it was also the result of the Soul Stream?
You'd think so but Leymore/Cai clearly says they wanted to get rid of the Shadow Realm by returning the Caliburn. Unfortunately that was not the case.
So, for all we know, shadow missions might not be the only time the player enters the shadow realm.
Where did that come from? At the same logic (if I'm understanding correctly), Manus's Shop in Dunbarton could be the Shadow Realm which it is obviously not.
Manus's shop is assumed to be the same realm, but both Shadow Realm and AnotherWorld/fakeTirNaNog are a separate from, but mostly identical to Erin/realTirNaNog.
My point is that the zombie field may be part of the same "world" as shadow Tara.(and that bringing up the Manus thing was kinda meaningless)
If you come up with a different term for them, it will also have to apply to shadow missions since they still run on the same system.
If we do use a new term, just "mission" would be bad, it's literal definition is closer to a quest than to an instance based map. could use something like "ibm"(instance based map) or "NOWM"(non-open-world map). It's hard to come up with a term that's both suitable and short enough to use without an acronym.
"Mission" is too broad of a term. Just keep it as a Shadow Mission since...I think it uses the same Icon no?
Yes, they do use the same icon.
I'm still going with Shadow Mission.
Oh by the way, does Grandmaster Mission have that "Mission" term?
I think that's something coined by the players. I never bothered with my GM quest. No intentions on getting GM just yet...
I'm not voting for changing or replacing the term Shadow Mission, but only calling missions entered from the Stonehenge Shadow Missions. As I said, this isn't a question of Mechanics, I just don't think they should go by the same name (even if we just shorten both to Mission, which doesn't really sound right).
I didn't want to continue discussing this, but Infodude and Sozen's points still stand. Mechanics is the crux of the argument here. The game itself classes these Generation missions (which for the purposes of this post I will refer to as Story Missions) as Shadow Missions, because the quest itself has that Shadow Mission icon on the Quests list when you enter, as well as that info button on the upper right. Call it lazy on devCat's part if you will for, but if devCat is classing it as a Shadow Mission, then it's a Shadow Mission, because that's how they want to name things. Your argument is better taken up with the developers themselves, not this wiki. Shadow Mission, as currently used in the game is simply used to describe a 'mechanic' type (not actually describe something according to current lore), which you may not like due to the misleading and possibly politically incorrect name, but until they give it a more official term (for the Story Missions), it's sticking on the wiki.
Besides, if we do use whatever term you want to use for those Story Missions, every single Shadow Mission-only item (and Barrier Spikes) in the wiki would need to be recategorized as also usable in (your term here) and explained in notes below as to why. And that is simply too much work for something so trivial.
(I like the term Story Mission better, though it wouldn't work with things like GM Missions.) Regardless, I know your point. I would be fine with not changing the term so long as we specifically say it does not take place in the shadow realm for each page that it applies. Whichever takes the least effort I guess, not that we base things on effort. To my understanding, an admin's textreplace doesn't require much effort.
Nexon's inconsistency irritates me to no end, and I am very much in favor of mentioning that these shadow missions are outside the shadow realm on the pages. I'd even go for mentioning it near the top of the page instead of the trivia section.
Bump, this needs to be addressed as they are not Theatre Missions nor Shadow Missions, and it's never established in one place what a "Mission" means, but Dungeons are explained.
What are you going to do next, try to remove Hooked Cutlass from every category because "Sword" and "weapon" aren't mentioned in it's description?
The most important thing to consider when categorizing things here is game mechanics, not graphical appearance or text. What an npc says about where they're sending you is irrelevant outside of storyline recap pages.
AFAIK, the term "mission" is never used ingame, the term "shadow mission" is the only term used ingame to describe this kind of mission.
Like i said, unless you're working on one of the storyline recap pages, mechanics are everything and location according to the story is nothing. Things like whether or not the npcs say you're going to the shadow realm and weather or not the sky is red are irrelevant. They function the same way, so for all intents and purposes other than story recaps, they're the same thing.
Well if we're going purely on Mechanics, Shadow Mission isn't as accurate of a term as Party Quest.
The literal term applies. Also, please don't use the reply feature in this post just because you can, normally use the "Add a reply" text, only use the "< Reply" button if you need to reply to that specific post and not just add to a conversation.
The literal term does not apply because they can be soloed.
So? They use the same mechanics as a Party Quest. If we're going by the name interpretation, that reinforces my statement that they are not Shadow Missions because they are not in the Shadow Realm. Story takes priority, and mechanics does not disprove my point.
What mechanics do they have in common with a party quest? Which point are you referring to? The only time story takes priority is when you're discussing story exclusively.
Uhh... Have we all forgotten Lord Missions...?
Scathach was the only one I did, and I only did it once. I don't think the entrance/exit glimmers red though.
IIRC there was a guide on Mabidata (or Mabination?) with screenshots that have regular skies. I think YouTube videos of Lord Missions also have regular skies.
If it matters...using a housing coupon in any of the missions, including theater missions, brings up a window saying Shadow Realm
My guess is every mission is treated as a shadow mission, with theater missions not allowing barriers, and the realm is is treated as a shadow realm. Either that, or just lazy writing just to confuse people...stupid devcat
So yeah... we still deciding on another term?
Good, them calling Theatre Missions Shadow Missions supports my claim. Either way, I still vote for making a page called just "Mission" and explaining how they work and how they are different from different mission types and dungeons.
Then what name is specific enough, but ambiguous to the point it can apply to both shadow and threatre missions, along with falsely labeled shadow missions?
Well...Shadow Missions for C3, C4 is theater until you ahve to do those other missions, which are also Shadow Missions since they take place in the Shadow Realm (save some exceptions like...assassins...), just call the rest Saga Missions or something...I don't know. I mean Technically the game treats it as Shadow Mission, and labeling it something else while not using a familiar term becomes confusing.
"Oh Saga Mission? What's that? Ohhh that Shadow Mission! Yeha I hate that stupid ruairi..."
Non Open-World Map or Instance Based Map
Sorry, I have yet to find a shorter idea that would still be suitable/accurate.
The main problem with "mission" isn't that it's not specific enough, it's that the literal English term applies to other things like quests a lot mote than this.