Keep Shooting yourselves in the foot...

Data Miners

Demonic_Illusion_Handle

FYI, the Demonic Handle is released. I accidentally broke the template, that's the only reason the page looks like that.

I believe Bristingr is referring to this, actually. No data, especially if it's obviously from the client files.

(Though, what's wrong with the template?) 'Kay, it was just an unclosed square bracket.

“	FYI, the Demonic Handle is released	„

Just going to quickly point out that there's a difference between an item's data being "released" (available through data mining) and an item being released (available in-game).

It's released in Korea, making it fair game for the Wiki.

I'm...going to guess that you haven't:

1. Read the MW policy.
2. Kept up with what's been going on regarding data mining.

• Do not add or use information from the Public Test Server.
• Do not copy and paste information from the game's client files.

• Do not directly paste the results of online translators onto future content pages without editing them for clarity. Nonsensical information is as bad as incorrect information.

• Future content info is okay! Just try to use NA server's localized names when appropriate. Make sure to type " {{FutureContent}} " at the top of the page or section to label it as future content.
  • Also, when adding future items/equipment, please check [[:Category:Future Items]] to make sure we don't already have it.

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Mabinogi_World_Wiki:Policy

Not a single thing saying Korean content is not okay.

Additionally, I did not make that template, I broke it trying to input crafting parameters. I looked at multiple data templates for weapons and couldn't figure any of them out because ALL of them use client code like that to define the template parameters.

What I said was in regards to you adding the weapon's stats to the page, not you breaking the template due to your inexperience with templates. Regardless of which method you would have used, you were going to add the weapon stats anyway, so I don't know why you're bringing that up. Unrelated comments aside,

“	*Localize everything to the North American server.	„

^Doesn't just mean the names and descriptions, but item values/stats as well. There have been cases where the stats of an item on the NA server were different from its KR counterpart (i.e. the beam swords), so using the stats from the KR server before it's released technically isn't correct anymore (Before the announcement on the NA forums, it would've been okay, but they made it pretty clear that they don't want people spoiling content). So you either went through the game files and found those stats, or are using the stats of the KR server.

That, and you probably haven't been following the whole data mining announcement on the NA Mabinogi Forums then.

If you read the future content tag above every single page:

"the article may be based on Mabinogi overseas. Details may change before the release."

It's completely fine to use Korean stats because it's not impossible to edit them once the items do reach here. Details can change, and they might.

Also, I have kept up on the announcement of data mining. I even went ahead and searched through several Nexon Forum threads, and found one in which Sabina herself clarified the definition:

• Information from foreign servers is okay
  • Publicly available information, regardless of country, is not data mining
  • Foreign test server information is not okay
  • Foreign client data is not okay
• Public test server data is not okay
• Local client data is not okay.

I think you're still missing the point.

“	No data, especially if it's obviously from the client files.	„

No matter how much you argue to try and justify what you're doing, all you're doing is contributing to the problem, albeit without the intent to do so. and

“	FYI, the Demonic Handle is released	„

This wiki is for NA Mabi. Saying that it's released and not mentioning that you're using data from KR Mabi in the first place makes it look like you're getting the info by other means (data mining being one possibility).

(@Yinato - Um. Maenad didn't add the weapon's stats - that was Kevin, before the policy change. Maenad just added the crafting data, which can be found outside client files. It's just that when the template broke, it showed the Mabi Item ID thing, which is why I removed the template.)

wut o-o Weird, it's showing up as being added by Maenad on my screen. If that's the case, then sorry Maenad, should've brought that up earlier. But the last part I said in my previous response still stands though.

Future content information is fine to add if it has a web-based source, e.g. the Korean gameabout site or JP wiki.

As to this point, the weapon stats can be obtained from gameabout, so dunno why it's not okay to add them.

“	No data, especially if it's obviously from the client files.	„

Ah, I see now. Well, since this is the case, I nominate for deletion, Template:DataTrinity Staff, Template:DataLongsword, Template:DataLong Bow, Template:DataBasic Control Bar, Template:DataLollipop-shaped Sword, Template:DataSoul-Searcher Sword, Template:DataFomor War Sword, Template:DataBattle Mace, Template:DataShaoranen's Bow of Chivalry, Template:DataWisdom of Snakes, Template:DataMaster Lich Wand...

...well that's odd. I can't seem to find a single weapon template that doesn't utilize XML code taken from the client. Looks like we need an entirely new weapon template system.

Yeah, Kevin put a lot of effort in to convert the templates to use XML a while back - which is especially why it hurt when client file stuff was explicitly banned.

Anyways, as per this post a few discussions away, we won't need to delete them - just change them when the opportunity comes.

This update is adding a ton of new weapons. They can't stay without templates forever, so now seems like a good time.

When I have the time, I will be converting all of our current equipment/item pages and the few templates that read xml.

In regard to the beam swords: two versions came out in our server. The stronger ones were removed a week after and whatever.

I've skipped most of this gigantic thread. I'll just spell it out for you guys.

• Content from foreign official servers OKAY
• Content from any test servers BAD
• Content from foreign wikis OKAY

As far as the demonic weapons go, it is okay to add the pages.

The demonic illusion handle information was added by me before the entire xml conflict.

Oh, Maenad already posted someting similar.

@ OP, I know you're trying to make a fool out of us, but you're doing it to yourself.

What about cases where the info posted on foreign wiki clearly came from data mining? Would we be free to post that info, since we were not the ones who obtained it, or does that 'no data-mining' rule apply to even foreign data?

The latter, but, knowing me, I'm not one to strictly enforce it.