Reorganization pending.

Unless Nexon NA directly states "Generation #" or anything, no. Patch notes should reflect what Nexon NA says. I don't even think they used "Generation 18" but instead Sagas.

That's not what I meant, in the previous thread the G19,20,21 example was a hypothetical situation. Let me put it this way, KR got the updates in this order: Druid, Diva, Vate. NA got Druid as expected in the ocrrect order but NA never announced the other two heroes. We later get Vate, making Diva skipped content. A month later we get Diva, AFTER Vate. In that time frame between Vate and Diva, what happens to the patch notes on Diva?

The way the page is currently set up, treasure hunter and SMART content are listed as unreleased. So using your example of KR's release vs NA's hero releases, the period between the Vate and Diva patches would have been listed as:

• druid patch notes
• vate patch notes

-notice talking about future unreleased content-

• diva patch notes
• cul artist patch notes
• treasure hunter patch notes
• SMART content patch notes

So if that's the case, we would include Unreleased Content (meaning the Skipped Content section, whether or not it is actually Skipped) because Diva would then directly fall into that category. Don't think of this on terms of what's currently on the page, think of how we would handle the page in the future. We might get Smart Content next patch, then the Saga 2, then Treasure Hunter after all that. Although unlikely, things like this do and have happened on a smaller scale and can happen on a larger scale. If we remove skipped content, then that would mean removing information on Treasure Hunter if/when we get Smart Content first and not readding it until it does finally come out or is announced, which sounds plain stupid and unprofessional to me.

You seem to have a funny definition of skipped content. Future content =/= skipped content. Skipped content means, for one reason or another, things that were originally supposed to be in an implemented patch (emphasis on the implemented) were excluded and that we may or may not receive it in the future. What you're describing is getting one patch before another, in which case, we wouldn't have to worry about "skipped content", as there's no content to even skip at that point. This is the wiki for mabi NA, so obviously there are going to be differences in how things are implemented between NA and KR. Now...please explain your logic on how a change in the ordering of future major patches, which have yet to even been implemented in the NA version of mabinogi, translates into skipping an entire major patch, because you've honestly lost me at this point.

This was also mentioned in one of the earlier threads by Blargel:

“	Whenever we get an update, we're obviously going to list it in the order that we get it in.	„

You're saying it as if we are guaranteed to get the Diva update, that's falling to the fallacy of entitlement. NA could in their own right chose to have only released Druid and Vate. People are questioning if NA will ever get Ninja simply because it is JP first and not KR first, what if it was KR first and NA just never chose to release it? If we don't get the update in KR's order, we should then remove it? I honestly don't see how this is different from "Skipped Content", this is what the purpose of the Skipped Content section is, updates we may never get or have not yet got in the expected timespan.

If we get Smart Content next patch, and NA has yet to announce Treasure Hunter, are we going to remove the patch notes of Treasure Hunter from this page or move it to skipped content? That's the important question.

/facepalm

I can't predict what Nexon NA will do. When we get it, things will change accordingly and anything we did not get will be removed. However, if it gets implemented later, then it will be put back in, but the content will be in its proper patch as NA got it. Unreleased ≠ Skipped by any means. We either get it, or don't get it. The original intention of skipped content was that the content was not in its proper patch from its origin and has not been seen. Since it was established that Skipped Content does not exists, it simply means Nexon NA has either no intention of bringing it to disturb the balance or it was a decision from a business standpoint. I can't tell you what they are thinking, but whatever we get, we'll list, and any unreleased content we didn't get, can be left until implementation. I want to say if we don't get by the next major patch, we can remove it.

You don't have to tell me what Skipped Content's purpose was. If you look in the page's history, I was the one who added the section. (Yes I now regret using the term "Skipped" rather than something like "Unreleased".)

Ignore for the moment that definition of skipped content or what is currently in the skipped content section. You're saying if we get Smart Content patch next in NA and then the Saga 2 like KR did but not get Treasure Hunter next update, or possibly ever, we're just going to completely remove the patch notes for Treasure Hunter from this page and only rewrite it there once and assuming if NA ever announces it or does a surprise patch with it? Really?

Please reread everything that you've said up until this point, because you are either contradicting your previous statements at every turn, or pulling arguments out of thin air.

“	You're saying it as if we are guaranteed to get the Diva update, that's falling to the fallacy of entitlement.	„

Nope, I'm saying it as if it's future content. Also, the fallacy you're looking for is the appeal to probability, which doesn't apply in this case. Funny how you try to say that I'm falling for a fallacy when you, yourself, have been using kettle logic for three threads and counting.

“	NA could in their own right chose to have only released Druid and Vate.	„

Thank you for repeating what I said earlier. Keeping that quote in mind, that means that it's not decided by KR when we get the patches, correct? So how would that make diva skipped content if said content was not meant to be added before the vates patch in NA? Answer: It wouldn't.

Pyro, please read the following sentences until you understand them; "This is the wiki for the NA version of mabinogi. The patches are released based on the discretion of the ones running the game, not on the release schedule of KR. Saying that content is 'skipped' solely because it was added in a patch different from the KR version is false."

As for the important question you asked: There is no more skipped content section/page. The patch notes would remain in the unreleased contents section.

Yinato, please stop. I am not referring to what your'e saying, I am addressing Lexis. I may be misunderstanding what she is saying, but by what I understand of what she is saying, she is not saying "The patch notes would remain in the unreleased contents section." like you are. She is saying the Admins have decided and the patch notes would then be removed from the page entirely until/if NA ever announces it.

I'm not speaking on behalf of our admins by no means. So far, unreleased content can stay, but skipped content is another story, as Saiyr explained.

I guess I must have misunderstood then. I was basing that on "Skipped Content (Removal has been voted among higher ups to avoid confusion)"

“	Yinato, please stop. I am not referring to what your'e saying, I am addressing Lexis. I may be misunderstanding what she is saying, but by what I understand of what she is saying, she is not saying "The patch notes would remain in the unreleased contents section." like you are. She is saying the Admins have decided and the patch notes would then be removed from the page entirely until/if NA ever announces it.	„

That entire post is just wrong. My post was in response to this, which you directed at me. Also, that isn't what mika is saying.

Also, can you ask the admins to make a post about their supposed decision you said they made? Most wiki users and wiki readers cannot hear these private conversations and do not want to take the word of semiadmins, rather hear some official announcement.

I asked Kadalyn last night and she thought we agreed to remove skipped content from this page and rename it to something like "foreign content" or something similar. In my opinion, this should include "unreleased content". There was no decision on an official name.

So we keep a skipped content section just not use implicit euphemisms like "Skipped", say it is unreleased, like it is?

I'm not a fan of the word unreleased, either, because it could easily be misconstrued. But if by "section" you mean not on this page, then yes.

Do you have any suggestions?

My opinion is that it doesn't need clever nomenclature, so it could be an article called "Content on other regions" or "Patches in other regions" or "Patches (other regions)". It's a bit out of line with the typical page on this wiki, but it's pretty normal for other wikis. I proposed "foreign content" as the "clever" name, but I don't like it too much. I just came up with the (other regions) idea, but I think I like it. Regardless, it should focus on geographical naming rather than release state.

Edit: Actually, I guess using "Patches" implies a specific article structure like this one, so maybe it's not the best. Regardless, this is a minor detail and the name can always be changed later. Just pick a name for now.

Permission to make a "Foreign Content" page immediately? Or should I wait until you guys come up with something more decisive?

Yes, go ahead and make it now. Details can be determined later. I'm closing this thread. A new one should be started to talk about reorganization with no discussion about foreign content.