Season Quests

I think season quests should be added here. Like the G9S2 Violet one somebody mentioned above. Does anyone have any objections, or I should I go on with it?

I don't think they belong here -- unless they aren't actually part of the mainstream.

But Season quests are not a part of the mainstream. Some are like spinoffs, and most of them aren't even close to being a spinoff.

Go ahead, then.

It might lead to confusion though. Most people know them more as "G9S2" and "G11S2" and not as NPC Quest. There's already been an issue where people got lost.

I think they should remain on the same page just for the convienence. People who usually do these quests are doing or just completed the generation number its in anyways.

People have been changing the wiki back because they know it more as G9S2 and etc. What should be done?

I say they should be moved back.

I concur with Aramet.

Go ahead and move it back, leave it, or what ever you want. Just remember this, calling a bird and apple doesn't make it an apple.

Wow, this is an old topic. Not entirely sure why it hadn't been moved already, but...

I vote to move all the quests from "The Elf's Request" to their respective generation pages, as well. With the exception of Lileas' quests, they are involved in the mainstream - a "foreshadowing", if you will, like the quest chain with Ascon. And even if they're not exactly foreshadowing anymore, they do still fall under the "Alchemist" tab in quests, so people will still be looking for them first in the generation walkthroughs. It took me a while to find this page again, as well, and not everyone else will think of looking for this through the Metal Conversion page.

Why not just make them their own page titled Sidequests?

Because they can just as easily be given a section called "Sidequests" in their respective generation quests pages?

Association by dissociation probably isn't the best way to go. And since they're not too dissociated from the generations' storylines, they probably should be placed with the walkthroughs.

But they aren't associated with the storyline...

Maybe not for Lileas. But for the other three, how are they not?

The G14 example I gave earlier - Ascon introduces the player to Arranz, Videk, Belvast, and Admiral Owen. That leads to G15's Belvast Island, Admiral Owen, some rumors of Videk, and Arranz's grave.

G10 S4 - that's where Jenna had her first revelation that the people who killed her father wasn't Fomors, they were the Royal Alchemists, which is why she left Leymore in G11.

G9 S4 (White Violet) - learn about the lengths that Cai is willing to go for Lena.

G9 S3 (Andras) - confirm that Andras is an Elf, and that she knew Elatha, which was the key point behind the Music Box in G10.

EDIT: And besides, they are still categorized in the "Alchemist" tab of the Quests window. Why not just organize these quests the same way the game does?

The game categorizes it as Alchemist/Shakespeare, but no where outside of data does it categorize it as "G9S2" or "G9", etc. As I said, most aren't affiliated with the storyline. Only ones that actually seem to be are G11S2 and Ascon. The others are story, but not the main storyline.

If the game already categorized quests in its data, isn't that already a good enough reason? I don't think anything else categorizes these quests at all, aside from this page calling them NPC Quests, and if it's the game info vs wiki info, pretty sure game info should wins.

And can I get an explanation on how they're not related? They may not be the main storyline, but the same applies to Ascon and G11's Claimh Solas too, don't they? Instead, they're the connecters or the hole fillers; the bridges or the expansions. Most of them revolve around the important points of the main story, which is why I think they should be with the main walkthrough.

The game info also has a lot of stuff that aren't even in the game, you know. It's supposed to be based on what's viewable in the game, not the data. The differences are, removing G11S2, G12 wouldn't make sense. Removing all of the G9S2s and G10S2s, nothing changes.

the problem is, where to search for these? when these werent in their respective sections, i could not find ANY info about them. Hence people are used to them in the generation section.

Not to mention, what is viewable is that the season quests here are seen in the "Alchemist" tab of the Quests window. So they should still be placed in the generation walkthroughs, whether because the game data says the season quests are placed together with the main storyline quests, or because the Quest window shows that the season quests are grouped with the other main storyline quests.

On the issue of removing any of the season quests, I think that's a different from its relation to the story. You can't exactly say "removing G11S2, G12 wouldn't make sense. Removing all of the G9S2s and G10s2s, nothing changes" since, looking at them as walkthroughs, there's no story elements told that would differentiate the usefulness of placing the season quests and main quests together. We're talking about whether they should be organized together because the stories are related; we're not talking about how moving the instructions somewhere else will be more detrimental for one guide than it is for another (that would have the same effect for any generation).

And besides, wouldn't G9S2 be just as important to explaining Andras and Elatha's intimacy as G11S2 for explaining the Jenna's clothes change?

To Aubog, as I said, put them on one page titled Sidequests because that is the most popular term for them. (Also, people being used to something doesn't make it correct or means it belongs there.)

To Akira, you're missing the point. It's easier to look for and access these quests if they're on one central page.

I'm pretty sure all I've heard so far was why they may not belong on the generation walkthrough pages. Though I suppose your point was implied.

Anyways...I really can't say that it would be easier to look for or access this page. Like I said, I had to go around through the Metal Conversion page. At the very least, a separate page will require many more links placed in other pages to increase accessibility.

Though I agree that people being used to something doesn't make it correct or means it belongs there, that only applies if the "people being used to something" is a minority. Considering how Golvan and Ascon were released in a "Season 3" and "Season 4" patch, respectively, and how the wiki itself separates different updates as "Generation X, Season Y", I'd think the more popular term to refer to them are "Season Quests". And since "Seasons" are inherently related to "Generations", (as well as them being organized in the "Alchemist" tab,) the most common place to look for them should be the Generation pages.

I can't exactly say it's easier to access these quests if one has to move to a new page if a person has to switch back and forth between this hypothetical page and the Generation walkthroughs, should they be doing both at the same time.

Lastly, it defeats the purpose of collecting the season quests into one page, anyways, if at least one of the season quests still have to be left on its Generation page.

What do you mean by "if at least one season quests still have to be left on its Generation page"?

People still have to switch back and forth if they're doing, lets say, G11S2 and G3 at the same time. But Sidequest is still a more common and correct term that G#S#. (And even if Season Quests is still a widely used term, that's why we have redirection pages. And we can always redirect G#S# to their real names/sections in the page.) But honestly, I don't see the point of this page (ignoring the idea of sidequests page) if we remove the "G#S#" page since the only other quests are still technically "G4S2".

I see where you're coming from, and I agree, but I still don't think what is popular is what we should base a factual database on.

"[If] at least one season quests still have to be left on its Generation page" refers to the example you gave, G11S2, since you seem inclined to leave that one in the G11 page. It can also refer to the G14 page, since the S3 and S4 quests are placed on that article. I'm saying there's no point in starting a collection of Season Quests if not all the Season Quests are not going to be on there.

On the matter of switching, it's probably still best to leave the info in as little a number of pages as possible.

There would be little point to this page with little content, that's true. But considering one of the two quests are already on the Sidequests page, why not move the info over there and delete this page? Unlike the other season quests, these ones don't exactly relate to a mainstream story. (I think they do make more sense being "miscellaneous" rather than "NPC" quests, anyways.)

What is a popular conception isn't good at all to base facts on, I can agree with that much - but I think what is popular is something that we should base the organization on (though that can just mean using redirects).

I didn't say lets keep G11S2 on G11's page...

And it would make more sense to me to rename Miscellaneous Quests as NPC Quests.

Still leaves the G14 quests, though.

And, um, why do "NPC Quests" make more sense? They're not exactly intricately involved with NPCs, they only give the quests to the player.

Describe them as season quests and put them at the bottom of each generation page. There.

I, uh, agree with Aubog.

Moved all of the important info, so this page is redundant now.

The question now is whether or not to rename Miscellaneous Quests as NPC Quests, as Pyro had suggested.

I personally think "Miscellaneous Quests" is better, though.

Actually, why not redirect Misc Quests to Sidequests?

Didn't want to leave this conversation dead without deciding anything.

So...anyone against Pyro's suggestion to collectively name the "NPC Quests" and "Miscellaneous Quests" as "Sidequests"? It's the term most often used.

Don't take action with consulting.

Oy, oy, I already gave a really big time wait period. Two months, plus the five days since I put the last notice up.

In any case, what reason is there to keep this page now?

That doesn't matter, it's still in discussion. Don't mark something for deletion unless all other solutions are considered and rejected or if it's spam/advertizement/breaking policy.

Er...like I said. Two months. Is it really under discussion anymore?

And I thought redundancy counted for deletion, too.

And do you have anything else to suggest, then?

Maybe we should make a more public poll?

Though I intrinsically like the idea of a poll page to draw attention to controversial discussions, there's still no good reason given to keeping this page.

If there is to be a Sidequests page, NPC Quests would redirect to it (as people might be using that term) and there is also data for the quests converted into the quest template.

Eeh, not entirely sure people use the term "NPC Quests" at all, but sure.

Does anybody know if there's a chart of how many/how often a page gets clicked? (Even if it's an off-wiki tool.)

On a similar note, how about merging with Role-Playing Quests?

Hey, wait. We already finished that conversation. The season quests are supposed to be in their respective generation walkthrough pages. Why did you add them back?

As for your two comments...I'm pretty sure there should be a "this page has been visited XXXX times" at the bottom of every page in the normal skin. I advise against merging Role-Playing Quests with Sidequests, though; RP quests are fundamentally different from other quests, and there needs to be somewhere where its mechanics can be explained.

But it wasn't unanimous/claimed to be over and that doesn't change the fact that that isn't correct termination/usage.

For NPC Quests, "This page has been accessed 15,432 times." For NPC Quest, "This page has been accessed 9 times." So I think a redirection (for NPC Quests, maybe not NPC Quest) should still be used.

The mechanics of RP quests can still be explained in Sidequests though...

“	I'm pretty sure the Dark Knight quests, and its RP, count as G3, though.	„
—Akira

No, Dark Knight Quest is a sidequest released in the G3S4 patch. Although that, Paladin Passive Defenses (G3S3), and Falcon/Beast (Pioneers) are too large and distinct to be categorized on the same page other sidequests. (And may I point out that neither of the quests are known as G3S3 or G3S4 despite their right to be called so by the same logic of people saying G11S2 or G14S3.)

The reasons why G11S2 and G14S3 (as well as other Season quests) remain on the generation pages have already been discussed Pyro. Leave it be.

Also, as for renaming the page, go with whatever causes less confusion.

First of all, there wasn't any "other seasons" in that statement. Second of all, that doesn't mean they should. Correction>Common.