Shooting myself in the foot but...

Why is Aer not here?

For every unclosed gallery tag on the wiki, God introduces an idiot. I wonder who it'll be.

Well it's not who you think it is for now

No, no; I'm talking about an entirely new one.

A new challenger has appeared!

I agree with the 3 year old "why does this category exist". One article does not make a category.

There's also a Spirit (NPC) category which only has Eiry and this category as a sub-category. Some of the old stuff in this wiki is just hilarious.

I agree. I laughed so hard when I came across this one searching categories.

Assuming we're keeping this category, shouldn't Shiela also be on here?

bwahaha my knowledge of horror is going to pay off 8D

Lingering Ghost ≠ Wandering spirit

Shiela died and obviously isn't aware she's dead, which is pretty evident as she tries to get Mores' attention as I recall. Ghosts, good or bad, are bound to to the earth until they either move on or accept what has happened. Sometimes Ghosts are even bounded to something, such as an object...again which is evident as the other broken Torque given by Duncan contained Shelia's memories...or in this case, memories after she died. Spirits can come and go as they please, regardless of nature. At least in some cases, Ghosts and spirits can manifest into the physical realm, which is why Milletians can harm ghosts in Peaca (Skeleton ghosts inhabit skeletons while Gold mask Ghosts possesses...a Gold mask.) Spirit on the other hand, can also manifest into physical forms which would, again, be why Milletians can talk to Aer, despite being bound to where she is.

Of course, on a general term...yeah you could say she's a spirit, but hell should I know...honestly it's public opinion. Some say they are the same, while others are different about it. Of course there's also translation issues where you can't exactly translate ghost to spirit or vice versa...much like how "The Holy Ghost" and "The Holy Spirit" are very much the same, but well...two different translations. Honestly I'll just leave that to the general opinion on who goes where...if a fight breaks out then, obviously, some action will be take.

If this category is being maintained rather than deleted, then perhaps it would be better to create a broader category name that satisfies Eiry, Aer, and Shiela? I also don't really see a reason to separate Aer to a mainstream only version of the category, especially since she is still present outside of mainstream quests and has SOME use.

What does being a Milletian have to do with physically harming a ghost or seeing a spirit? There were Ghost Cloakers in G16 who fought against the Aliech Kingdom, and Nele even witnessed Aer with his own eyes.

Well I only stated Milletians because:

• Most predominant race and mostly roaming about doing the quests.
• Using it as a general term for human/elves/giants
• I never said it was limited to Milletians?

I'm just going to quote from one of the old talk page discussion.

“	Shiela is a ghost, which I consider a spirit, but others might define spirit as a being which personifies an aspect of the world, such as Aer for water.	„
— Sephy

Aer and the Spirit Weapon NPCs are well spirits, but they're not dead nor they have ever mentioned being 'alive'(as far as I know). So possibly, in Mabi Ghosts =/= Spirits.

Instead of bothering with hypotheticals of keeping it, why not just delete it since there is no requirement for an npc to be alive? They are still storyline non-player characters regardless. You can bother with the details of the character beyond the name on the individual's page.

I agree with this.

I agree as well. This category and the Spirit (NPC) category is pretty much useless. What counts as a spirit is very vague in Mabinogi so without any clear definition, it's left to interpretation. For the most part, interpretations shouldn't really be on a wiki, unless you're reporting on all the major interpretations of something, which is clearly not what we're going for here.

I fourth-ed this.

Also do we even need to split a race into normal and "(Mainstream)"?

Why was this created to begin with. o- o....

Who cares, it's gone now! Incidentally, I'm now worried about the Race category, but let's save that for later.

EDIT: Nevermind, wrong category... what the hell was I looking at? I'll get back to this in a bit.

EDIT2: Found it, this NPC Races category feels like it'd be full of interpretation since a lot of Mabinogi is vague as hell.

"Paper Life (NPC)"

Folks, are we serious here?

They are totally serious, but I would put them in their general categories myself.

Although I disagree that this has anything to do with being dead, I can agree with both keeping and not keeping this category.

I am currently eating my own words right now...literally printing and eating them now.

That aside, there are some silly categories...I don't see why we have to have multiple categories when you could just generalize it...why split it into smaller and obscure categories when it can be cleaner and placed in one single category? I'm honestly neutral at this point = -=

Agreed, categories are meant to organize things, not be unique. (Hashtags anyone?) Where would Aer and Eiry go now?

Can we shove all NPCs into just a generic NPC category? It's not like there's any sort of official categorization of races for every NPC in the game.

Then why need a category at all? NPCs already has everything but event NPCs, though I guess the same could be said about most categories.