Talk:Gathering Knife

Upgrades

I've been hearing a lot of complaints about the information on the upgrades added with Pioneers of Iria. Supposedly a lot of information here is incorrect and it certainly doesn't seem right here. Can we get a fix or confirmation?--Mystickskye 11:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Probably my fault, I added in some estimated data on sequences, which is all probably wrong. Change what you know is wrong, or just delete all of the sequences. --Price

What exactly does "Obtaining an Extra Wool" entail? Do 2 separate individual wool objects drop, or does a single wool 2 stack wool object drop? Also, does that extra wool count against that sheeps maximum remaining wool (say for pet sheep), or is it a pure bonus? --sly

I just got my knife upgraded and I immediately tested it out. It is a pure bonus. Two wool objects will pop up. The extra wool does not count against the sheep's wool count. I was able to gather beyond 30 wool from a single sheep. Same goes for pet sheep, only 5 mp will be consumed if two wool is gathered. I am so in love with my knife <3 and this is going to make my weaving training so much faster and less stressful. --Dias 19:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Egoable?

For some strange reason, I've been hearing rumors that gathering knives are now egoable. However, I can't be bothered to prof one myself. Can anyone confirm whether or not this is true? Sogard6 15:57, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

At one point, I'm sure that the final upgrade reduced shearing time by 1.5 seconds and multiplied the repair cost by 17. If that were still true after the shearing update, you could shear 2 times per second with max speed upgrades and rank 1 shearing! Can anyone confirm the new time reduction and repair cost multiplier? I doubt they'd change one without changing the other...

No clue about the repair cost multiplier, but it doesn't seem like the upgrade was ever 1.5 seconds.

It was; I timed it myself several years ago.

Data from revision 71 suggests that it was always 1.00 second.

And where is this "revision 71"?

Revision 71 of the game's client.

It wouldn't matter too much, since the maximum multiplier is x10 anyways.

For enchants. Personally not sure if that applies to upgrades.

At one point, I measured the time difference to be 4.8~3.4, or about 1.5. At the same time, the multiplier was definitely 17. The time had room for error, but the multiplier did not.

When was revision 71?

Around G12.

I don't even know why you're bringing up the multiplier. I never edited that.

I brought up the multiplier because the max is definitely not x10.

At any rate, it's entirely possible they changed the final upgrade at some point to only 1 second. The 1.5 time was calculated 4 years ago.

Hence why I'm questioning whether or not the multiplier from the same time is also incorrect.

10x multiplier cap only applies to enchants no?

I downloaded a copy of R25 (05-06-2008), and the data still seems to suggest that the collection speed is only decreased by 1 second...

It's possible this entire time we only thought the reduction was 1.5 seconds. After all, I did the calculations manually, which is submit to the strangest lag... And I don't recall anyone questioning it, either.

With rank 3 shearing and a speed upgraded gathering knife, it took me exactly 1.582 seconds to collect, which seems right (5 second base - 1.5 second shearing skill - 2 second gathering knife).

I'm still in disbelief that shearing is so fast now, but that's apparently just how it is.

Now that I have a fully upgraded gathering knife, I was able to confirm that the time it took to shear 10 wool dropped from 40 seconds to 30 seconds, or 1 second per wool.

I did a little testing using the "Fastest Collection" route; Either there's a cap on the multiplier limit, or Blade Polishing is not a 17x multiplier.

By the calculations done, the repair price at Ferghus should be 141 G (141.9, but rounded down), but his option only costs 80 G.

Even with a 10X multiplier for the last upgrade, it should cost 83 G (83.5, but rounded down).

Nerys' (95%) repair costs is 1,000 G per point...

By calculation, using 17 X as the last multiplier, it should cost 993 (993.89, but rounded down)...

Edern, 2670 G per point.

Should be 2839 (2839.714)...

The multiplier does not seem to act the way we expect it to...

Maybe it's applied to the repair %'s formula, rather than appended.

I vaguely remember checking these numbers a long time ago and getting all exact matches. There may be something I'm forgetting though...

Is there an archive for these talk pages? I may have mentioned something in them...

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Talk:Gathering_Knife&action=history

Everything's starting to make more sense now... the base repair costs are wrong. Nery's is 12, Edern is 32....

I'm going to have to look into this more...

Okay, this is really weird. ONE gathering knife is working base 20, while the other is base 32! (the base 20 one is upgraded twice, and hitting 57)

No, the base cost varies depending on how much you bought the item for. The higher the price you buy for, the higher the repair costs, sell price, etc will be.

All repair costs on the page are expressed as 50 G base price, which is the norm.

I was just confirming that. If that's true, then I believe everything's solved...

Before my theory, I want to check on one thing. How much durability does your gathering knife have?

8, purchased from ... oh. crappity crap crap. one second.....

Okay. So. It turns out I was comparing 50 G knife prices with 80 G knife prices.......

Using 1.7x and 10x as multipliers...

1. 90% : 83.521
2. 95% : 1002.252
3. 98% : 2672.672

Each value seems to be 2~3 G off... so 17x still can't be the multiplier, 10x has to be it, but whats with the tiny 2~3 G deviations...?

Since I want to make sure, I gathered all the numbers myself. For a dur upgrade and 3 speed upgrades:

• 90%: 4
• 93%: 14
• 95%: 34
• 96%: 54
• 97%: 73
• 98%: 98

Add in the final speed upgrade:

• 90%: 80
• 93%: 250
• 95%: 580
• 96%: 910
• 97%: 1250
• 98%: 1670

This is clearly multiplied by 17. As for the rest, next post...

The reason for the small gold difference is actually quite simple. I'm not sure why, but instead of rounding down to the nearest unit, it rounds down to the nearest ten units. With that, every value matches perfectly.

Yes, but that's through rounding, which the server does not actually do. The formula seems to be quite a bit more complicated than just rounding down to the nearest tenths.

Meaning the multipliers are not exact.

Actually, it's more likely the reason is that the base repair prices are not supposed to be exact. The formula will round off any decimals in order to give the player an even repair price, rather than a fraction of the a gold piece.

There's a whole set of numbers that indicate the server is rounding. I didn't round the actual values... that's what they are!

• 83.521 => 80
• 250.563 => 250
• 584.647 => 580
• 918.731 => 910
• 1252.815 => 1250
• 1670.42 => 1670
• 1002.252 => 1000
• 2672.672 => 2670

Specifically, 918.7 comes out to 910 and 1670.4 comes out to 1670. This makes it very clear that the only thing that could be happening is every single result is rounded down to the nearest ten!

Decimals... the ones you can't see.

My theory is that it was purchased from nery's, where the base repair is 12 for 95% and 32 for 98%. If you either took the durability upgrade first or the final upgrade is x10, the numbers almost perfectly match.

If you apply the upgrades in opposite order, and round down each time except for the final, the numbers match perfectly except for edern, who's off by one. I'm still trying to figure out why.

If you take the repair prices and divide them by the base price, they come out to almost 83.

1. 90 : 83.521
2. 95 : 83.333...
3. 98 : 83.4375

Since this'll be the second time the wrong repair rates have been calculated (my old repair numbers, the correct numbers, were overwritten! This saddens me greatly...), I thought it appropriate to explain my math. It applies to all repairs, and has already been checked against certain NPCs multiple times. Like the table indicates, applying an upgrade multiplies the cost by that much, give-or-take one gold for rounding. Let's take the second entry for example:

• "Hilt Polishing"+"Hilt Polishing"+"Hilt Polishing"+"Hilt Polishing"+"Granites' Gathering Knife Upgrade"
  • This is not equivalent to 1.7+1.7+1.7+1.7+10=16.8!
  • It is also not equivalent to (1.7+1.7+1.7+1.7)*10=68!

The correct repair multiplier is 1.7*1.7*1.7*1.7*10=83.5. This was the value I calculated several years ago, and unless someone wishes to protest these calculations, please refrain from incorrectly calculating them the next time the table gets updated!

1. Will the shearing speed upgrade have any effect on how fast we can sheer the paper sheepies in Avon? Strangely it feels like the shear time on paper sheep is not changed by gathering knife with speed upgrades.

2.Will the double wool chance upgrade apply to paper pages? probably not.....

I use a double gather speed knife on them all the time. It works.

So double gathering applies on the paper sheep? As in randomly without a lucky bonus you'll get 2 play pages?

Yeah.