Talk:Flame Burst

Splash Damage

As the video entails, Flame Burst is much like Windmill, in that it splashes enemies around the targeted enemy. Does anyone have any idea what the angle for the splash is? And is the damage equal to the focused blast of Flame Burst, or is it watered down? --Price 22:29, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

It's a fan shape infront of you. It gets wider the further it is from you. The range it reaches is pretty decent. However the damage is inherently weak, but critical isn't affected by protection. --Miyuna 16:57, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

The damage may seem low at first but remember this skill hits mutiple times, 3, 4 and finally 5 times this skill can hit. Adding charges increases the damage so it could do some good amounts of hurt. Plus it's an excuse to use fire crystals and it's an Alchemy skill that can hit mutiple enemies at once with it's AoE. --Bryanneo 01:26, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Then another question arrises; how is the skill triggered? Does an enemy have to be in the AoE (like WM) or can it be triggered at any time? (like Stomp)--Price 06:42, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

It might have to be in range, like WM since you have to target an enemy first whereas Stomp allows you to click without an enemy to do so. --Bryanneo 16:53, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

You need at least one enemy to "aim it". It isn't like you load flamer then click an area near you to use it even without enemies. You still need to ctrl snap or attack an enemy within range to activate, then any enemy near it or further within range will be affected. --Miyuna 01:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Fire Elementals

Does anyone know if fire-enchanted clothing adds to the effect of flamer?--Price 03:58, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Are you talking about giving or receiving? If you are saying giving, then I'm gonna guess no since it just effects how much elemental damage is weakened. If you are talking about receiving, then I think it's pretty safe to say that it does. Still, test to find out. --Haven923 15:21, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Far as i know, elementals do not affect the damage skills do, but reduce damage taken by said attacks, so fire elemental enchanted gear would reduce the damage. --Bryanneo 01:27, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

All I know about fire elementals is that you take less damage from monsters that are fire-element or from firebolt/fireball,But you take much more damage from Ice-element attacks.so its risky to use elementals when you fight against ice monsters. --Newlight9:46, 26.March 2010 (UTC)

But is Flame Burst still affected by fire elementals?--Price 06:44, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

No.--Hengsheng120·^TALK_CONTRIBS 07:12, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Flame Burst capped at r6

Got 100 points into rank 6 but there's no rank button *sad face* --Bryanneo 17:52, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Flame Burst Theoretical Damage

Flame Burst appears to have low damage just by looking at the rank number, however it can be a -very- high damaging frontal AOE. This is due because it is an area skill that can be charged up to 5 times and HITS 5 times (at rank 1). Let's assume someone has r1 Flame Burst with all 5 charges(we'll do the pre-g11 numbers, then g11), r1 Alchemy Mastery, r1 Critical Hit and fighting a foe with 0 defense and 0% protection. Let's also assume he has no Alchemy Related titles or damage boosting enchants and did his maximum damage with all 5 hits. Of course, hitting maximum damage and all 5 to critical hit is rare, but let's just assume a player was able to perform such a feat. Now unto the calculations:

Pre-g11 Damage

Flame Burst rank 1 5 charges (5x), Alchemy Mastery (45%), Critical Hit (150%) x 5 (number times it hits) = Final Number

34 x 5 = 170 + (45% x 170) = 246.5 + (150% x 246.5) = 616.25 x 5 = 3,081.25

Now if you add in a Fire Cylinder: 3,081.25 + (15% x 3,081.25) = 3,543.4375 damage, since this is AOE, it affects all enemies in its reach.

G11 Damage

Flame Burst rank 1 5 charges (5x), Alchemy Mastery (45%), Critical Hit (150%) x 5 (number times it hits) = Final Number

42 x 5 = 210 + (45% x 210) = 304.5 + (150% x 304.5) = 761.25 x 5 = 3,806.25

Now if you add in a Fire Cylinder: 3,806.25 + (15% x 3,806.25) = 4,377.19 damage, since this is AOE, it affects all enemies in its reach.

Just by looking at the damage range of the skill itself, it doesn't even make it obvious the wonderful area damage Flame Burst can perform. If all 5 hits critical, it isn't that far from its sister, Water Cannon, in terms of damage and it is an area spell makes this skill wonderful (WC has an advantage with a higher damage, and it's rare for Flame Burst to critical hit 5 times in a row, however Flame Burst is an AOE skill). Of course, my calculations could be wrong, but this is the predicted damage of Flame Burst that is unseen to the eyes. If flame burst has the property as firebolt in terms of damage (6.5x with all 5 charges), then the damage would be boost greatly. --Miyuna 06:12, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

From my experience, Flame Burst's stacked charges seem to be more then just 6.5x like Firebolt, at times it seems like it's 10x the power with a fully charged Flame Burst(hitting 100+ damage when my Flame Burst's max was around 10. The only way we can find out how much 5 charges adds is if someone does Flame Burst tests at novice rank in Alchemy Mastery and record how often they do with a fully charged flame burst. --Bryanneo 20:30, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

5 charges does 720% damage. Flame Burst might sound good but this penalties won't sound good:

• most of the shadow monsters are fire type
• graphical error (internet connection doesn't matter. It happens to everyone)
• sometimes you can't cancel the skill (another error)

and also you only counted max damage, and it is pretty rare for person to do highest damage. (flamer is low balanced skill) Fallenone 13:31, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I have no problem canceling flame burst any time. But now I am extremely puzzeled. I got rank 1 Flame Burst and I am able to hit 700 damage instead of the predicted 600 damage and I'm not even using a fire cylinder and only rank 5 alchemy mastery. I'll upload a new video to replace the old one soon. --Miyuna 13:54, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

did you calculated with X7.2 or X5? Fallenone

why?

why is this still in the future alch skills category o.o; ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sreth (talk • contribs) . Please always sign your comments with the button or by typing ~~~~!

Flame Burst charges are lost when being attacked, regardless of whether the skill is being used or not, yes? Then if Flame Burst charges are lost while its in use, will its damage remain the same or decay?

I figure once you start the skill, it does that damage no matter if you get hit or not.

I'm assuming fire alchemy upgrades go along with fire alch enchants in the damage formula, is this correct? And does fire alchemy enchant/upgrade bonuses get the 7.2x multiplier at 5 charges or just 5x?

Final Damage (Normal Damage + Additional Damage) * Cylinder Modifier * Elemental Modifier

What exactly is the elemental modifier therE?

Could be Fire Alchemy or Reforging Stat. I'm no Alchemist though.

It could possibly be related to Elementals, but others above were saying that it isn't affected by element. I've never seen the Elemental factor added into any skill's damage calculation though, as it is something completely unrelated to the skill itself, and instead applies to everything.

From my knowledge though, the discussion above wasn't completely correct, as wielding an element that is strong against another element, i.e. Fire vs Ice, will result in a damage increase based on the elemental factors of both combatants.

For example: Suppose a player decides to wear 3 articles of clothing enchanted with Fire, and faced a monster that is inherently 22% ice element. The 3 articles of fire add 33% of damage to flame burst's damage, and then, because the monster is only 22% ice, only 22% of that extra damage is -actually- added on. I don't know if elemental skills add an additional elemental factor to an attack, but if it does, then I would assume it adds 11% (the value of one elemental) to the attack. However, it might be the case that elemental skills have a set elemental value, and completely overrides the equipped elementals. I am leaning towards the latter assumption of overriding the equipped elementals in calculating damage boost/reduction.

I have not tested this, I do not plan to test it, and I have not personally seen any validated arguments whether elemental skills are factored in with the equipped elementals, or whether they override the equipped elementals in determining the element of the attack. I am pretty sure that the elemental factor does make a difference though, because that is why one can hot-air balloon with 9/9 items ice enchanted, but still deal damage with firebolt.

Elementals don't affect magic or alchemy is why you can balloon with 9 items and still deal damage with firebolt.

Does element really have no effect whatsoever, or is it just that magic and alchemy skills have a set amount of each specific element, and ignore equipped elementals?

If it's not talking about the bonus from elemental combat, then I really have no idea what it's talking about.

Does this skill get an enhanced multiplier at 5 charges like firebolt/water cannon (6.5x) or is it just 5x?

Though the above conversations are old, i just felt like replying to them in general and also adding some new information to those that may read it. During the recent glitch from nexon's failure (AGAIN, lol) as of 3/17/2011 having been fixed it will not be as obvious, minimum damage and maximum damage from titles and possibly enchants as well affect alchemy skills. in this case at least flame burst. This glitch in case nobody had experienced or heard of it, was one that glitched titles to give the intended stat boost as normally given, but upon picking up two or more items in a row, increasing the characters stats again by that same title. the effects being stacked together each time resulting in a character achieving the maximum 999 in each corresponding stat eventually. my point here being, i watched as my friend soloed hardmode difficulty mission shadow wizard, doing with a single charge with r9 alchemy mastery and a single charge of rA flame burst of 3000 damage per monster per hit without a critical hit (also eep in mind these monsters have high protection and defense). He used the shadow hero title to stack together endless minimum and maximum damage together. It should be tested that minimum and maximum damage in the characters stat window increases ones damage output with alchemy. that is all, thank you~

Could someone please explain how the additional damage formula works?

During a test to find out my flame burst's damage [R1 Flame burst & R1 AM] I found that I had 52 max damage with a single charge, 104 max damage with two charges and 260 max damage with 5 charges.*

With the formulas for damage currently listed as:

Normal Damage: [(Base Damage * Charges) + (Fire Damage Enchants * Charges + Damage Enchants)] * Critical Modifier - Enemy Defense} * (1 - Enemy Protection)

Additional Damage: Additional Damage * (Alchemy Mastery Bonus + Fire Alchemy Mastery Bonus) / .15

Final Damage: (Normal Damage + Additional Damage) * Cylinder Modifier * Elemental Modifier

Normal damage should be: [42 * 1 + (0 * 1 + 0)] * 1(?) - 0 * (1 - 0) = 42

Additional damage should be: 10 * (1.15 + 0) / .15 = 76.666 (This doesn't sound right am I misinterpreting it?)

Resulting in Final Damage: 42 + 76.666 * 1 * 1 = 118.666 (Far off from what I got)

However instead I had 52 damage with one charge, 104 with two charges, and 260 with five charges. There does not appear to be a fixed additional damage equation separate from normal damage. Alchemy mastery (R1) appears to give an additional 10 damage that is multiplied along with base damage through charges from my observation.

From JPWiki's article, the equation for additional damage from my understanding should be: Additional Damage(10) * [Times Alchemy Mastery was ranked (15)]/15...?

The additional damage formula on JPWiki appears to assume R1 AM and gives the formula as a method of finding additional damage for ranks below rank 1 AM.

Critical modifier is also a bit vague to me and I would like to know what defines that.

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

• This was done naked with an NPC cylinder on Provocation Basic barrier spikes [0 Def\Prot], I also tested the barrier spikes themselves prior to testing to confirm that they indeed had no damage reduction.

Alchemy Mastery Bonus should be interpreted as .15, not 1.15. Where 1.15 is appropriate, (1 + Alchemy Mastery Bonus) is used in the formulas (on other alchemy skills).

As far as the formula is concerned, I couldn't find a specific formula so I assumed it worked the same as Water Cannon, since that's the only other skill with an extra damage parameter. Your data would seem to show the Additional Damage also being multiplied by the charge count, however, so some revision may be needed.

From generalization with other damage types (melee/range/magic), Critical *should* be added as Critical Modifier * Max Damage, however jpwiki had it listed as a single modifier (fine for predicting max damage), presumably interpreted as (1 + Critical Modifier) (so r1 would be 250%). Without any testing data to back it up, I didn't see fit to modify what they had.

Alright I think I understand now, thanks for the prompt reply.

I've done some testing of my own and it confirms that the extra damage is indeed multiplied by the charge count. After I get a chance later to determine whether it bypasses defense and protection or not, I will modify the formula accordingly.

Additional Damage does bypass defense and protection. In a 100% duel against a player with 24 def and 8% prot, rF Flame Burst with r1 AM hit 3 damage on non-crit (should hit 1 if no bypass).

Is the additional damage multiplied by critical damage?

I haven't tested this. Need to get levels before G13 comes so it'll probably be a few days before I get enough time to test it properly.

Thanks a lot again, I appreciate the efforts you've put in to researching this, if I can find the time I'll attempt to do more testing on this.

From the looks of it so far, you appear to be correct in that it is very similar to water cannon's formula.