Please learn how the wiki works.

wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Talent/Talent_Tables&curid=85194&diff=634786&oldid=634779

Simply undoing an edit without consultation, especially when you have no idea what you're doing, is even more counter-productive.

Since you seem to know what you're doing, care to share any tips on how to reduce the page file size?

wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Talent/Hero_Talent_Tables&curid=93908&diff=634785&oldid=634784

Can you justify the point in having a redundant+misleading banner?

wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Talent&curid=19937&diff=634761&oldid=634759

Have you ever thought "Hmm. I need some gathering exp tables. Makes sense to go to the Talent page, rather than the Gathering page."?

I've verified that your edited version increased the size of the page by 3kb. No idea where you got the reduction. You can see the page length in bytes here. Under your edit, the file size increased, so I don't see any warrant in your edit. In addition, you opened a discussion, and then redid your edit anyways before waiting for a proper conclusion.

Removal of that significant amount of data requires discussion, and there is an open discussion on the page.

The banner is clearly saying that more work is required for the Culinary Artist section and that help would be appreciated. Can you justify its removal?

In addition, I don't see the point in these edits, what were you trying to accomplish? I might be able to help if know what the problem is that you're trying to fix..

Was there a reason you removed the 3 parameter from the talent icon page as well?

1. You're looking at the page length of the code, not the expanded page.
2. That's not a significant amount of data, and it can be found in a more appropriate page. Whatever, kid.
3. The removed banner states that the page is outdated, not "more work is required".

   The banner under that already states that more work is required for the page.

   The page is not outdated, hence misleading.

4. If you knew anything about how templates worked, you'd understand the change that the edit made. There was no issue to the template, it simply reduced the size of the template (by about a few bytes, which makes a considerably difference in pages like...cough...Talent...cough...).
5. I did not remove it. Take a closer look.

Here's a dumbed-down version of how to find a page's file size.

1. Save the page.
2. Look at the size of the file.

   Notice how the Talent page saves into 2.9 MB. Granted, there are differences in size depending on the format, but majority of the size (pretty much all) is code.

   Notice how that number does not match your "93 KB".

If you think the outdated template should be replaced with something else, I suggest replacing it with something less misleading, rather than removing the banner altogether. You can also open a discussion on other banner templates if you feel it necessary to revise them.

I also encourage you to provide evidence for all of your claims.

You were right on the talent icon part, I was mistaken, I didn't see that you moved it to another portion of the page. But I still see no purpose to it, if anything all you did was add an extra character.

I would replace it with another, less misleading banner, but unless you want two "Incomplete" banners, it's already there.

Well... shit. Actually that's the reduced size from 3.29(?) MB that it was earlier before I re-undid your undo.

That extra character has a meaning. That meaning does something. That something reduced the file size.

That's actually the less accurate number. For just the page content (not including sidebars, headers, footers, chesters), it went from 1.4 MB to 1.2 MB. Pretty dramatic for some commas.

Both of you stop the reversion war already.

The real issue here is that the page is way too big with or without commas. It should be split into multiple pages.

Commas are more readable, so commas are definitely preferred.

The page had commas before, that's not the issue.

Splitting the page into multiple pages does not help in the aim to reduce the page sizes (unless you don't intend on re-including those new subpages into the main page) so that the Hero Talent Tables can be included in the Talents page.

The commas seem to be Kapra's issue? The diff shows that basically the only difference is 3000 commas.

I don't think all the tables should be included on any one page at all, they're way too big and the processing time for that page is ridiculous.

I'm not sure how to best handle it though. I would like a more dataless summary of talents with links to talent-specific pages that contain those tables and such, personally.

I did start a discussion but no one seems interested in talking.

The page before had {{formatnum: . . . }}. Converting it to commas shows no visual difference and actually increases the file size, from what I've gathered.

I approve of the changes Flippy has made to the Hero Talent page, though. But I still think he should consult the talk page before doing such a thing.

Flippy, some of the changes you just made to the homestead template were good, but moving the event checker to the |- broke it, look at the homestead animals section on the homestead page.

I realized that, but I was too busy responding to this thread, which interrupt my fixing of the change.

Scenario 1

{{template}} expands into -> ...(shit ton of content)...

Replace template with actual content of template -> increases page code length, but no change to page file size

Scenario 2

{{formatnum}} expands into -> ...(shit ton of formatting code)...

Replace formatnum with a single comma -> decreases page code length ({{formatnum}} -> ,), but big change to page file size (...(shit ton of formatting code)... -> ,)

Scenario 3

The same as scenario 2, except you're adding thousands of commas, and removing multiple formatnums

...(shit ton of formatting code × however many times it's in there)... > , × however many times it's in there