Talk:Synthesis List

- if someone can please make an additional link to a synthesized material or miscellaneous, that would be great i find that [hp30 (20), gathering knife (10), gathering knife (10)] makes 1 fine silk 09:15, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Japanese Wiki

[1]

This looks like a link of possible items via random items. A Google translation of the site gives odd, but slightly readable names for a few weapons. Example: Eguzekyushonazusodo = Executioner Sword

--DarkWyvern 09:44, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

This is the "References" link that's already on all the pages. We aren't going to add all the recipes because they may not work in NA and that's a hell of a lot of translation work.

Whoops it's not on all the pages yet. Sorry. Our current synthesis lists did come from there though.--- Angevon (Talk) 14:43, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

naota's law of fusion(beta and could be wrong)

i've fused a bunch of equips and so far i got forula(results will always varies)

3x of the same weapon = same weapon min(1 or higher) max(1 or higher), balance -2%(so far it hasn't been wrong), -1 or -2 dur

3x clothing same = +2 dur

--Naota3 07:20, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

What do you get when you synthesize 3 of the same clothing item you got by synthesizing 2 of the same item?(i can't try it myself cause 1:not doing synthesis yet and 2:no space.)--Sozen Cratos Focker 11:11, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

i'm sure what saying please ask again--Naota3 22:27, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I basically just suggested that you take 9(or more if a synthesis fails, don't know what rank you are but i'm sure ur higher than me) of the same item(store-bought gathering knives would probably be best since they're cheap) and make 3 of the +1min&max -2balance ones and synthesize those to see what you get.--Sozen Cratos Focker 16:47, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

ok i'll try it out --Naota3 07:20, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

huh the weapon grade varies alot normaly comes out better then base --Naota3 06:28, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

: i have done more research and i have discovered a little more it sorta catorized on what get
feeble weapons(gathering knife, dagger, stick)
normal weapons(broad sword, bastard sword, war hammer,ect.)
adv weapons(gladius, mace, bipenis, leather bow, ect.)
rare weapons(machete, butcher knife, gargoyle sword, ect.)

geting an iteam is based what put in the oven so adv weapon(3x)= cleaver, feeble(3x)= normal weapon, more research is in progress --Naota3 22:32, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

How Synthesis Works

Alright, so from my synthesis experience, this is what I have determined. (As always, I could be wrong, but these are based off of my observations).

-First off, there is that list on the page of what you can get if you put 3 random items in, and getting back small gems, nails, paper, etc. Any 3 inexpensive items will make this. Crystals, fish, gems, herbs, you name it. If the value of the item is not worth a whole lot, most of the time (90-95%) when you succeed, you'll get a seemingly worthless item. Garbage in, garbage out. However, on occassion, we get a phoenix feather (worth 100g), a blessed magic powder (worth 500g), or an Elite Magic Powder (1000g). Using feathers I've gotten from synthesis just gives me junk as usual, but using a blessed magic powder and two other junk items has netted me a pickaxe. Using the pickaxe and 2 junk items, I got a common fabric. In essence, the value of the items you put in determines the quality of the items you get out. This is why we see recipes for the most expensive gear (Dragon shields, dustin helms, etc) using things like Jagged Mini Skirts, since they are worth so much. If you put in something worth a lot, you will likely get something comparable out if you succeed.

-Secondly the type of items you put in determines the output. From what I can tell, there are several "layers" of items you can get based off of value, so kinda a default list of items you can get if you will. But if, say, you put in 3 swords, it will add onto this list some other things related to swords you can get or the items you put in. For example, if I put in 3 different kinds of herbs, I can either get a junk item, one of those herbs back, or a garbage herb. Or putting in a stam 10, stam 30, and stam 50 potion can make a poison potion. Alternatively, putting in 2 kite shields and a longsword has resulted in a common fabric. Basically, whatever you put in can broaden the list of items you receive.

-Lastly, putting these two principles together, we can get the items we want. From most of the recipes that I see for the expensive items, there is one item that is really expensive (such as a jagged mini skirt or an idol ribbon dress), and two other items of the type that is wanted (such women's clothing for new women's clothes, shields for a new shield, helmets for a new helm, etc.) An example recipe set for the Dragon Shield on the JP wiki mainly had the Jagged Mini Skirt being the item to determine the value and two different types of shields as the other items (Kite shieds, vales shields, heater shields, and tikka shields were the ones used).

So how does this help us train synthesis? Well, if you want to make an herb or a potion without using recipe synthesis, put in herbs and potions as your items. Need to make an item with a value of 5000g or more? Then up the value of items you're putting in. If you're lucky and succeed, it seems simple enough in principle. Now only if it actually WERE easy...

If I've said something in error or you'd like to add on, please comment. --Temjin 1:14am PST, 24 February 2010

Currently, this list of random synthesis recipes is very misleading. I've done some synthesis service on Saturdays and a lot of the people asking me to synth (besides the arat crystal duping) are making me put gathering knives with kite shields in hopes of a war sword. From what I've gathered after grouping info together from my synthesis friends, the chances of that particular recipe actually producing a war sword is around 0.1~0.3%. However, a war sword seems more likely to pop out when you use something more expensive than a kite shield such as a light armor of some sort. Another downright wrong aspect of these pages is how they are still displaying what stats the result will have. It has been confirmed by someone else already that synthesis grades are completely random and not dependent on the items that are put in.

I've confirmed that the result from random synthesis is determined by the resell value of the items put in (Light Melkas have 0 resell value but and produced very low quality items when synthesized together). The rest of this paragraph is speculation, but the game seems to average the resell values of the inputted items, randomized slightly in some fashion, and then assign a "quality group" based on the result to randomly choose an item from. Then it weights the random choosing towards a specific group of items (for example the sword group if you put in swords).

Each "quality group" also seems to have its own junk items. For example, if you put in three gathering knives, you will end up with the cheapest weapons (wooden sticks, wooden blades, wooden clubs, etc) and occasionally junk (large nail, paper, small green gem, etc). This is what I believe is the lowest "quality group's" melee weapon list and junk list. If you move up a "quality group" or two, and use the kite shield, gathering knife, gathering knife recipe, your weapons tend to be a bit better (bastard sword, fluted short sword, dagger, etc) and the junk items also upgrade in quality slightly (cheap leather, common fabric, etc). In one of the highest "quality groups" with the tipping suit + kite shield + kite shield recipe), your shield results can be fairly good (hetero kite shield, heater shield, possibly even beholder/composite/dragon shields at a low rate) and the junk items will be worth a little at least (spirit restoration potion [which resells for a little under 5k at npc], finest fabric).

Anyways, with this information as well as what Temjin has above, I think we really need to revamp this whole section on random synthesis recipes. The only question is, how should we go about doing this?

This is just a spork from JP wiki. Random synthesis uses a probability calculation related to specific parameters. There is no such things as a true "recipe" but specific item combinations have a specific percent yield for all outcomes. Stat change is random though.

I agree that the table's status changes column should be removed. The rest of your post I'm not exactly qualified to comment on.

Perhaps we can use the current pages of random synthesis recipes as examples of the mechanics of random synthesis after adding information to this page on how the results of random synthesis is determined? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "Random synthesis uses a probability calculation related to specific parameters", though... that sounds pretty vague. Also, Is it against wiki policy to put a theory on how something works on a page when it's nearly impossible to determine how it really works? Especially on something as big as this. It sounds like it'd be okay considering the theory can be constantly revised as people test new things based on it.

Well I have a lot of statistical evidence gathered. Enough to determine the parameters with some accuracy. Certainly enough to be tested by others.

Parameters:

Value - NPC value of an item. Skews probability curve towards more expensive items. Ratio appears to be 4~6:1

Class - Class of item (armor, shield, weapon, etc). Skews probability curve towards items of that class.

Type - Secondary characteristic of an item (Magical, Sword, Metalic, etc). Skews probability curve towards that type of item.

Rarity - Only applies to specific items and items with rare types or items exceptionally hard to obtain (such as Dragon and Relic types or rare drops). Skews the curve towards rare or synth only items.

using a kite shield with more expensive swords, glads maybe, should increase the success rate for a war shield, but, can a cheap shield and 2 gathering knives have the chance for a war sword? i guess theres a range of "items" or its just the % success rate which changes for every item inside the "class" we are in. Also i think, mixing different kind of items, can give as a result, one of any item of those classes, but decreases the chance of each item as well, having more items to "pick" as a result