Talk:Combat Mastery

This page is huge!

Ever since the elf and giant info has been added, it's become a major pain to find any information I seek. I feel we should break the page into 3 separate pages, 1 for each race. The default "no race" links can go to human, like they would before the other races were added. However, having to sift through elf and giant stuff like this is a little too much, don't you think? --Doomsday 13:57, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Not Really, it would be harder to find it if it were on seperate pages and also this is Combat Mastery so it should have all races for it anyway.. --Aussie♣

Just a thought

Should we keep each rank listing the total effect? I kinda want to see the individual effect for each rank, since the total is already listed in the summary.
Like, for Rank D, it says "Effects: Total Melee Max Damage +3, Total Max HP +30"
Would changing it to "Effects: Melee Max Damage +1, Max HP +10" instead (since that's what the rank's actual effect is) be too much of a change?
We could also make it "Effects: Melee Max Damage +1 (+3 Total), Max HP +10 (+30 Total)" if that's better.
If you all don't like this idea I'll just leave it as it is.
--- Angevon 13:26, 18 June 2008 (PDT)

-shrug- I think its fine :]--♫ѕτя♪ (I can't find an "a" D:) 14:31, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree

I think thats a really good idea, I've noticed other skills that lack that sort of detail as well, recently I've been mass editting the Wiki with links to help the little newbies navigate around, if you would do that, that would be very helpful to me. Also, there was strange coloring on the page, i changed it to something normal however im still not sure why it was orange, ill leave stuff like that alone until after I ask from now on, sorry if thats a problem. Thanks ahead of time
--- Wolfen198 11:02, 15 July 2008 (PDT)

Wait.

At one point in the page, it says that this is the skill with the highest CP added. But at Rank 1 Combat Mastery, it's CP is near rank 7 or so Thunder. I am removing this line now. Here was the line.

• Warning!: Combat Mastery has the HIGHEST CP added rate, making it extremely difficult to train this and some other skills.

--BladeBlade 07:12, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Rate is different than total --Kevin 07:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

That meant CM had high CP rate for combat based skills. ~ Shadowboy132

I think we aught to create a separate summary chart for each race. It'd be easier to read than one chart with all the different stat progressions bunched up together. Just a thought. --Weather 16:18, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

• Probably because the person thought that with the huge amount of HP added from Combat Mastery, the stat CP would override Thunder. Isn't true since HP from Combat Mastery adds no CP. Phanterz 20:50, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Is there some proof to this statement? Teuchronic Knight 11:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes. HP added from Combat Mastery adds no CP. That's your proof. --Kevin _(»Talk«) 09:17, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

HP from Combat Mastery is considered the same as HP gained from enchants. They do not give CP. You will notice it when you have no title or enchants on but if you look at the Status Screen, your HP still appears golden with a parenthesis next to it. --Kendoza 15:26, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Removal of certain content

I removed a lot of information that I found should not be on the page. For example, there was more then a paragraph of information all related to Dual Wield only, and that should be on the dual wield page, not here. There was also information talking about how Elves and Giants work with melee, but that's related to race not the skill itself.

Also, I found it unnecessary to link all the combat skills to this page. We already have a category page for that on the wiki.

It's always nice to save space. --Dysprosium 16:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes it is but appearntly there was only two written facts. After that i decided to write things about "Combat". ~ Shadowboy132

HP

Like when it says +70HP apon ranking up. It only gives +20HP or less. What wrong? - Random

Could you explain your problem better? ---Angevon 00:26, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

When ranking the skill, it only tells you the TOTAL amount of HP you're getting from the skill, it doesn't actually add what the new rank says to what you already have. Basically, you get 10 HP per rank and the game shows the total you've gotten so far.--Qaccy 01:09, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Weapon Poison

I heard someone say once that the success rate of poisoning your enemies if dependent upon your combat mastery rank. Is this true at all? Beepuke 04:59, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

No. You can, however, extract poison from a pet snake and use it to enchant to your weapon to poison an enemy with a chance. The poison does wear off, though. --κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 05:02, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Uh, that's not exactly what I was asking... lol. I know that there is a difference between poison herb>weapon poison and snake poison. But I heard that the rate at which the poison affects your enemy, the success rate of poisoning them, is dependent on combat mastery rank. What I'm asking is AFTER you apply that poison to your weapons, does combat mastery affect the rate at which you poison? Sorry, my wording before was a little confusing and made my question sound more silly than it actually is! Beepuke 13:43, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Formula Revamped?

Is it just me, or has the damage formula for combat been revamped? Ever since the patch, I feel as if I've been doing less damage than before... I've also a post about this somewhere else. --κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 05:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

New Combat Mastery Table

A few people think the combat mastery table should be broken up into collapsible tables so that people can view only the information they're interested in. I've posted two versions of the table: what's currently on the wiki and a collaborative effort between myself (Saiyr) and Sinnoaria. If you read this, please sign your name under the table you prefer. Saiyr 01:02, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I like the second one but can it be hidden at default? Sagi 03:06, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I would like it better if the collapsable portions were hidden by default. It kind of gave me a panic attack trying to figure out where to look because it was even longer then the current version (at first sight). Beepuke 03:30, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Durf, all the people come out of hiding now. There was a fairly length discussion over this. You can see my user page for some of it. The basic idea is that by hiding everything by default, you satisfy nobody, and everyone has to spend the extra clicks to look at what they want. This is really not acceptable usability, and several people I talked to didn't like it either (I obviously don't). Personally, I didn't really see the need to split it into three collapsible tables to begin with, but this is the compromise that ladywinter, Sinnoaria and I came up with (you get collapsibility, we get show by default). Unless you have a very compelling reason to have it collapsed by default, I think we should stick with the compromise. "Panic attack" is a little exaggerated, but the table **is** longer than before, due to the extra headers and the duplication of the human/giant AP rows. There is no way to avoid that. Saiyr 20:04, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Current Version

Rank	N	F	E	D	C	B	A	9	8	7	6	5	4	3	2	1
Additional HP (Total)	-	+10	+20	+30	+40	+50	+60	+70	+80	+90	+100	+110	+120	+130	+140	+150
Additional Balance [%] (Total)	-	+1	+2	+3	+4	+5	+6	+7	+8	+9	+10	+11	+12	+13	+14	+15
Added Skill CP (Total)	0		10	30	60	120	180	220	230	240	250	260	270	280	290	300
Additional Max Damage (Human Total)	-		2	3	4	5		6	7	8	9	10	11	13	16	18
Additional Min Damage (Total)	-				1	2	3	4				5	6			8
Additional Strength (Human Total)	-	+1	+3	+6	+9	+12	+16	+20	+24	+28	+32	+34	+36	+38	+40	+42
Additional Dexterity (Human Total)	-											+2	+4	+6	+8	+10
Added Stat* CP (Human Total)	0.0	1.0	3.0	6.0	9.0	12.0	16.0	20.0	24.0	28.0	32.0	34.2	36.4	38.6	40.8	43.0
Required AP (Human/Giant)	-	0	1	3	5	7	8	10	12	14	16	20	22	24	26	30
Required AP (Human/Giant Total)	-	0	1	4	9	16	24	34	46	60	76	96	118	142	168	198
Additional Max Damage (Giant Total)	-	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	12	14	16	18	20
Additional Min Damage (Giant Total)	-		1		2		3		4		5	6	7	8	9	10
Additional Strength (Giant Total)	-	+2	+5	+8	+11	+14	+18	+22	+26	+30	+34	+36	+38	+40	+42	+47
Additional Dexterity (Giant Total)	-											+2	+4	+6	+8	+13
Added Stat* CP (Giant Total)	0.0	2.0	5.0	8.0	11.0	14.0	18.0	22.0	26.0	30.0	34.0	36.2	38.4	40.6	42.8	48.3
Additional Max Damage (Elf Total)	-		1	2		3		4		5		6	7	8	9	10
Additional Min Damage (Elf Total)	-				1		2		3		4		5		6
Additional Strength (Elf Total)	-	+1	+2	+3	+4	+5	+6	+8	+10	+12	+14	+15	+16	+17	+18	+23
Additional Dexterity (Elf Total)	-											+1	+2	+3	+4	+9
Added Stat* CP (Elf Total)	0.0	1.0	2.0	3.0	4.0	5.0	6.0	8.0	10.0	12.0	14.0	15.1	16.2	17.3	18.4	23.9
Required AP (Elf)	-	0	1	3	5	7	9	10	10	10	10	11	11	11	11	20
Required AP (Elf Total)	-	0	1	4	9	16	25	35	45	55	65	76	87	98	109	129

Sign here if you like this:

Proposed Version

Rank	N	F	E	D	C	B	A	9	8	7	6	5	4	3	2	1
Additional HP (Total)	-	+10	+20	+30	+40	+50	+60	+70	+80	+90	+100	+110	+120	+130	+140	+150
Additional Balance [%] (Total)	-	+1	+2	+3	+4	+5	+6	+7	+8	+9	+10	+11	+12	+13	+14	+15
Added Skill CP (Total)	0		10	30	60	120	180	220	230	240	250	260	270	280	290	300

Humans	N	F	E	D	C	B	A	9	8	7	6	5	4	3	2	1
Additional Max Damage (Total)	-		2	3	4	5		6	7	8	9	10	11	13	16	18
Additional Min Damage (Total)	-				1	2	3	4				5	6			8
Additional Strength (Total)	-	+1	+3	+6	+9	+12	+16	+20	+24	+28	+32	+34	+36	+38	+40	+42
Additional Dexterity (Total)	-											+2	+4	+6	+8	+10
Added Stat* CP (Total)	0.0	1.0	3.0	6.0	9.0	12.0	16.0	20.0	24.0	28.0	32.0	34.2	36.4	38.6	40.8	43.0
Required AP	-	0	1	3	5	7	8	10	12	14	16	20	22	24	26	30
Required AP (Total)	-	0	1	4	9	16	24	34	46	60	76	96	118	142	168	198

Giants	N	F	E	D	C	B	A	9	8	7	6	5	4	3	2	1
Additional Max Damage (Total)	-	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	12	14	16	18	20
Additional Min Damage (Total)	-		1		2		3		4		5	6	7	8	9	10
Additional Strength (Total)	-	+2	+5	+8	+11	+14	+18	+22	+26	+30	+34	+36	+38	+40	+42	+47
Additional Dexterity (Total)	-											+2	+4	+6	+8	+13
Added Stat* CP (Total)	0.0	2.0	5.0	8.0	11.0	14.0	18.0	22.0	26.0	30.0	34.0	36.2	38.4	40.6	42.8	48.3
Required AP	-	0	1	3	5	7	8	10	12	14	16	20	22	24	26	30
Required AP (Total)	-	0	1	4	9	16	24	34	46	60	76	96	118	142	168	198

Elves	N	F	E	D	C	B	A	9	8	7	6	5	4	3	2	1
Additional Max Damage (Total)	-		1	2		3		4		5		6	7	8	9	10
Additional Min Damage (Total)	-				1		2		3		4		5		6
Additional Strength (Total)	-	+1	+2	+3	+4	+5	+6	+8	+10	+12	+14	+15	+16	+17	+18	+23
Additional Dexterity (Total)	-											+1	+2	+3	+4	+9
Added Stat* CP (Total)	0.0	1.0	2.0	3.0	4.0	5.0	6.0	8.0	10.0	12.0	14.0	15.1	16.2	17.3	18.4	23.9
Required AP	-	0	1	3	5	7	9	10	10	10	10	11	11	11	11	20
Required AP (Total)	-	0	1	4	9	16	25	35	45	55	65	76	87	98	109	129

Sign here if you like this:

1. Saiyr 01:02, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
2. ladywinter ~{talk page}~ 02:29, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
3. Sagi 03:06, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
4. --Th3Evil5Ponge 03:54, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Right now in NA, Combat Mastery is giving the bonuses to Bare Hands and Powders, things you think it wouldn't work on. It does not give the damage bonuses on Shurikens or Guns because they're ranged weapons which is to be expected (and I've updated the page as such), but it's also not giving the bonuses to Lances, they're only getting bonuses from Lance Mastery instead.

Balance is hard to test so I just edited based on what's getting the max damage bonuses or not.

Late update, I don't know what you were experiencing or seeing, but Shurikens and Guns and other weapons as explained in your previous edit most definitely are affected by Combat Mastery. Reverted to previous edit because ya know, accurate information.

Inventory totems deactivated, character naked, titles removed, homestead totems uninstalled, echostones unequipped, no weapons are enchanted, special upgraded, or have any sort of damage or stat reforge, not in a party, no active status effects.

My character screen shows the following current stats.

STR: 1170

INT: 1355

DEX: 1003

Will: 913

Luck: 218

(Remember that the first 10 of a stat do nothing, so I subtract 10 from the stat before calculating base damage for a combat style, and while stats are floating-point, mabi truncates them for display (so 500.75 max damage will show as 500).

- Bare Hands: Given the melee STR formula, that should be 464 max damage, but when naked I show 490 max. This comes from Bare Hands having 8 max damage, making 472 damage. +18 from Combat Mastery makes the calculation 490, which is what's shown in-game. So Combast Mastery is granting bonuses for Bare Hands. http://i.imgur.com/re1EB8n.jpg

- Lance: Holding a lance that has 58 max damage on it, I would expect my max damage to change by +50 (8->58) before masteries (so 522) I end up at 565 max (in-game and calclated), which accounts for both Lance Master (+25) and Combat Mastery (+18). So Combat Mastery is granting bonuses to Lances. http://i.imgur.com/FT5eijM.jpg

- Shuriken: I next hold a Shuriken with 15 max damage on it, base damage should be 515.75 (290 + 225.75). I expect 530.75 with the shuriken, Shuriken Mastery is +20 (550.75 expected) and Combat Mastery is +18 (568.75 expected). However in-game, when holding the Shuriken, I only show 550 max. This shows that Combat Mastery's damage is NOT applying to the Shuriken. http://i.imgur.com/kMb4Xik.jpg

- Bow: I then hold a bow with 20 max damage on it, base damage should be 397.2. I expect 417.2 damage with the bow, Bow Mastery is +30 (447.2 expected), Ranged Attack is +25 (472.2 expected), and Combat Mastery is +18 (490.2 expected). However my character screen shows 472 max when holding the bow, which indicates that Combat Mastery is not applying for bows. http://i.imgur.com/WVtBhtJ.jpg

- Guns: I next hold a pair of guns with 12 max damage on them (and +10 from bullets), base damage should be 501 (232 + 269). I expect 523 damage with the guns, Dual Gun Mastery is +30 (553 expected), the Dual Gun talent bonus for Master is +18 (571 expected), and Combat Mastery adds +18 (589 expected), but my character screen shows 571 damage. So either Combat Mastery or the talent bonus is not applying (as both are +18), given that Combat Mastery is not affecting shuriken or bows I'm lead to suspect it's the one not applying to guns either.. http://i.imgur.com/g93ieSN.jpg

So with that testing and math, it seems that the current status is as follows...

Bare Hands: Yes

Lance: Yes

Shuriken: No

Guns: No

Bow: No

Am I making some sort of mistake with this latest batch of testing?

EDIT: Forgot about the talent damage bonus for guns, with that a +18 is missing so I've changed my judgment on guns.

Current bonuses to the character (too lazy to take off) relevant to this topic: 13 max (Phantasm Breaker), 15 max (Alban totem), 20 max (2nd title), 27 max (totem) = 75 max bonus

576 max with bare hands, which is to be expected http://imgur.com/a/qjP0v => this means that 568 would be my "true" damage, because you know, bare hands add 8 max

Max wise, you're right, but here's some things that need to be tested

Balance issue: I was testing with an alt, a giant, that had 58 dex (so 15 balance from stats), and r1 combat mastery (15 balance again) which is 30 bonus balance, plus 30 from bare hands so that is expected. With Shuriken, it's at 50% balance, which means combat mastery bonus is added for balance, because without it, I'd be sitting at 15 + 20 = 35, which means the 15 has to come from combat mastery as the character doesn't have ranged attack and can't have balance from that http://imgur.com/a/KOGWB. Same deal for Taunes, which with my giant, I was using a 14% balance one, and just like Shuriken, the final balances ends up being 44%, instead of 15 + 14 = 29 if we assumed that Combat Mastery doesn't apply

Bows are expected to work that way because they're the only weapons that get affected by strength, or just basic expectation of a ranged weapon.

To put it short, damage doesn't apply, but balance does

My giant with 10 dexterity (so effectively 0) and R1 Combat Mastery has...

- 45% balance with bare hands.

- 29% balance with a 14% balance lance.

- 35% balance with a 20% balance shuriken.

- 60% balance with a 45% balance gun.

So yup, balance is still applying, editing the page to reflect the results...

According to here, Combat Mastery Balance actually does affect Dual Guns?

Also does that balance also by any chance affect shurikens?

Yes, and yes.

If you're still not convinced, plug the approximate balance equation in the Wiki and see if you come out with the right balance. Otherwise, you can simply have your alt equip a shuriken/guns and rank up combat mastery, but I can tell you that it does affect it. I really don't see any reason to not believe it.

Here's a list of weapons that will get affected by combat mastery:

Swords

Blunts

Axes

Lances

Knuckles

Scythes

Control Bars

Dual Guns

Shurikens

Wands

Since Pet CM follows human ranks maybe we should write Humans/Pets in the table. Then again, it'll make it look even more crammed.  :/