"Establishing a standard format"

Cross-post from here because I don't think too many people are watching that page, and it also applies to this page and any further pages on Titles.

“	Due to the variety of users that have compiled the Mastery titles on Titles over the years, and the evolution of terminology, I feel it would be beneficial to establish a standard format for Mastery titles (and titles in general). First, Positive attributes before negative. Second, attributes have to be listed in an order. This is my list of priorities for attributes: Skill-unique stats. (ex: When equipped with a Sword, +10% Balance) Damage attributes (Max Attack, Magic Attack, Marionette Attack,Alchemy Damage, etc.) Defense attributes (Defense, Protection, Magic Defense, Magic Protection, Marionette Defense, etc.) Stat changes (Max HP, Max Stamina, Max MP, Strength, Intelligence, Dexterity, Will, Luck, etc.) Yet other things like Set effects or anything not covered. I will be organising the Master Titles by this standard, which is subject to change by discussion. Also, I feel that a new table for displaying the titles would be nice too. Thoughts?	„

Or make a sort able table with a stat +/- :x...too much work, a lot of formating, and then there's the miscellaous bonuses such as +gathering rate and what not...

I'm willing to do all the updating and sorting of the titles if someone has some new table formats other than MabiTable.

I think 1 and 5 should be merged, but otherwise, I agree.
We could always make data templates for tables and use style templates, would be less messy/easier to mass edit. (Like Kevin and I did with Lists pages.) Though the problem is, that will take a lot of manual work because data pages for titles do not yet exist.

I'm willing to help out with whatever needs to be done, but I'm gonna need help with that (because I wouldn't know what to do).

Although... you're only using the data in one place... so I don't really see a point in templating it.

I thought we planned on making individual pages for each title type, and and also having it on the main page? Though you have a point.

Main page?

Titles page.

Traaaaansclusion?

Ahhhh, okay.

My goals are three-fold:

1. Split Titles page into many smaller, more specific sub-pages.
2. Update all of those pages to make them more consistent and visually appealing.
3. Transclude updates to those sections on Titles.

So far, there hasn't been a significant-enough change to update anything. It's a work in-progress, but it would be great if I get some help with it.

How may I assist?

Explain to me what needs to be done to do something similar to what you have done for Enchants.

I wasn't the one who did enchants, but basically, using this title for example:
|-
| the Master of [[Combat Mastery|Combat]]
| <span style="color:blue">Max HP +20<br />Max Stamina +20<br />Strength +10</span><br /><span style="color:red">Intelligence -10<br />Luck -20</span>
that is what is currently in the table format. So, what we'd do is we decide on a standard name for these parameters, like Name, HP, SP, MP, Str, etc; and paste it on a page along the name of Template:DataTitlethe Master of Combat or something. Then we make a Style template, which would include first of all a template for the header (or just include the header in the page) and then a list template like this, which organizes the paramets from the data template, and just on the titles page type something along the lines of "{{Datawhatever|Stylewhatever}}." My main concern would be how to make it so positive numbers appear on top and negative numbers appear on bottom (if we go with the current format and not redesign the template). The advantage of a data/style approach is that if we edit the template, we only have to edit that template and all the entries would automatically follow the new design, rather than manually editing each one every single time. But as Kevin said, each title will probably only ever be used on one page, minus maybe skill titles, so I don't know if it would be that useful.

I don't believe that Kevin was referring to that in that way.

“	Although... you're only using the data in one place... so I don't really see a point in templating it.	„

From this quote, I garnered that he misunderstood the plans for the Titles.

Also, enchants are used just as much on the wiki. There aren't many pages outside of the Enchant pages and Skill pages that have enchants listed, yet look at the templates it has.

You're forgetting modifier pages.

Those are pretty much enchant-only pages, Kevin.

I sense some sort of misunderstanding.

What kevin is trying to get at is

Rank 6 Skill Page Modifier Page

Master Title Skill Page

That there would be at least two pages for all enchants and three for some, but only one page for most titles and two for some.

There will be Status modifier pages for Titles.

And there will be plenty other Title-based pages.

When I said I would make Category:Titles the Category:Enchants of Titles, did you think I was joking?

Sortability is a must. Not to mention the lack of visual appeal for the current tables.

Ah, then sounds good. If you create a base table design I can try and make it a template.

Looking at the table format, the problem with the table for Titles is that it is too wide. I think a new table format should be less wide.

If you're going to make each stat it's own sortable column, I don't see how you can.

Err... that's not how Enchants were done and that's not how I would like Titles done.

Wasn't the whole point of this to make title stats more easily sortable?

Yes, but there won't be sortability for each stat...

I don't see what's wrong with the current way master titles are formatted in skill pages? It's not like you'll ever need to sort them or anything.

Ctrl+F solves EVERYTHING 8D...

I don't think you want to make a sortable table...

What's wrong with that? Assuming we make a mouseover box to hover over text and says which stat it is (which would be easy if we go data/style), that format seems alright to me, just a bit squished.

table width is dependent on screen resolution. Spanning over 2 screens

Such a large table is not necessary. Not a single table under Category:Enchants covers every single stat in a single table. They are split into various Status Modifier pages to cover each individual stat or aspect changed. I'd love to see a Status Modifier-esque table done for Titles.

I personally think enchants should have a page like this, though not INSTEAD of enchant modifier pages.

You know, I personally think it is fine as is since there are so many titles that can easily out do like...half the master titles. If you guys want to sort the whole thing, be my guess. I was just testing something to see if it works. Other than the whole "Screen resolution" problem, there really isn't much stopping the table.

Nothing can replace the functionality of Ctrl+F!

If it's status...that's fine but I'm sure people would rather see things as a whole...So I guess we can drop titles that don't really add any statistical value...like lance charge.

There could be an "Other" page for modifiers like that that don't fall under a category, like Support Shot's damage boost.

Could you try making a(n Enchant) status modifier style table next?

While you guys are modifying the titles page, include both knowledge and learned official descriptions too?

What do you mean?

• Before Mastering: Fullfil the requirements to reach Rank 1 <skillname>. or Meet all the training requirements to each <skillname> Rank 1 and you will recieve the title to prove it.
• After Mastering: An honorable title awarded to someone who has reached the highest level available in <skillname>.

it's pretty much that. :/