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Forum - Dungeon update info.

Overview > Mabinogi World Wiki > Wiki Projects > Dungeon update info.
[#45]

So a lot of things changed with dungeons. Monsters were buffed, rewards were changed, layouts and floor numbers were changed, etc.

  • Dead end chests have gold and some unique items/drops in them now, should they be called "Dead End Chest" and "Rewards" be renamed to "Boss Chest"? I'm just wanting to make sure the names are clear.
  • I think we should include an example screenshot of each dungeon floor so players know around how many rooms to expect and things like that at a glance.
  • What do we do about dungeon monster stats? Pretty much all of the monsters were replaced by new versions that have buffed stats/EXP... but the generation dungeons and such are the old ones still, with the lower difficulty/stats. Should we treat the new monsters as the normal ones (replacing all the info on the monster pages), and for generation quests include a note like "This version of Barri is much weaker than normal"?
  • What do we do about the "Int for 3" and such info? Like the lists of those passes on the Dungeon Pass page, and the info for those dungeons themselves? People can't get into those dungeons, so should they just be removed from the pages?
Posted by Rydian on 12 August 2016 at 09:57.
Edited by Rydian on 12 August 2016 at 13:19.

One thing I'd like to throw in: It might be a good idea to add a category to all the dungeon pages immediately to note that they haven't been updated to the current game revision. This could also be done with a template at the top stating it may be old data because of the dungeon revamp and adding the category to the page.

As for the rest of it, I really like the floor picture idea! And I think old dungeon difficulties should be archived on a subpage rather than removed. Can't/won't speak for the rest, I think it'd be appropriate for players more familiar with the new content to negotiate some decisions on those.

Posted by Kadalyn (administrator) on 12 August 2016 at 15:32.
Edited by Kadalyn (administrator) on 12 August 2016 at 15:33.

Creating Alby Dungeon/Removed Versions

Description

This page archives the dungeon variations that were rendered inaccessible in the A New Dawn For Dungeons game update.


Followed by the "x for 3" and such versions being removed, but I don't know which version is the "base" version they kept, in terms of which boss shows up and junk. Should we just assume that the rewards were all bundled together per difficulty with new ones added?

Posted by Rydian on 12 August 2016 at 21:22.
Edited by Rydian on 12 August 2016 at 21:22.

I would add this tag if you plan on bundling them together.

Posted by Sakura502 on 13 August 2016 at 01:30.

Damnit, didn't know about that one and ended up making a custom one for this situation.

Posted by Rydian on 13 August 2016 at 09:43.

Okay so I ran a lot of dungeons with varied parties. The "dungeon" itself is now the same because the passes have been consolidated. Alby Int had 1, 2, and 4 player versions. Now they're all the same "dungeon", a single floor with the same miniboss at the end and all that jazz. And all the prizes seem to have been consolidated into the same list too, as expected.

What differs is the boss itself. Going in solo, I get the "for 1" boss (black spider). Two players, we get the "for 2" boss. Three players we get the "for 2" boss again (because there's no old 3 boss). Four players gets the "for 4" boss.

The reward lists get merged and the bosses get noted as showing up with certain party amounts. So the only thing that would be "removed" is the differing list of monster spawns, because it's all one merged spawn/layout used for each difficulty now... and honestly that's not enough to bother archiving.

EDIT: So I went and merged the Alby Intermediate versions. Copied the monster list that shows up now, changed the boss listing to vary depending on party size, and merged the reward tables. What should the dungeon map example dropdown spoiler be called though? And is the way I did this okay to do for the rest of the merged dungeon forms?

EDIT2: I took screenshots of various dungeon maps, but...

Rabbie Basic Floor 1: http://i.imgur.com/QxOe0FQ.png

Fiodh Normal Floor 1: http://i.imgur.com/8QnFoZA.png

Looks like a lot of the "unique" (annoying) aspects of various dungeon layouts were removed. Like the forest ones no longer have 500 rooms per floor and such, things seem to be pretty standardized across different dungeons. So while previously I thought the different types of dungeons would still have different layouts, it seems now they only vary in size with difficulty so unique pictures of each one won't really be unique or needed.

Posted by Rydian on 14 August 2016 at 11:43.
Edited by Rydian on 14 August 2016 at 18:55.

I recently saw another player asking why the monsters in the dungeons had different stats than what was listed in the wiki, so I went to see if I could update the monster pages... but I've come to a standstill almost immediately, so I'm not being much help at all.

For example, Imps that spawn at NW Dunby have their old stats (310HP), but the new Imps in Barri Normal have ~1450HP. Which is the "default" Imp? Maybe split the box into Imp (Field) and Imp (Dungeon)?

Vampire Bats in Barri Normal have ~1000HP, and Vampire Bats in Peaca Normal have ~200HP. Which Vampire Bat is the "default"? I mean, I could be a complete tool and seperate them into Vampire Bat (Barri) and Vampire Bat (Peaca) but I'm sure no one wants that mess. And that's just one specific bat, goodness knows how many different versions of the other monsters are out there now.

Do we look into updating the monster templates themselves?

And of course I don't have the exact numbers and I can't get any of the other stats (clean client, can't even view CP). My method of getting their HP is literally as sophisticated as bashing their heads with a stick. I know mining is taboo around here, so is there another way to get that info?

Posted by Eralea on 9 October 2016 at 04:21.

Talking about how to mine/admitting to doing it is what's taboo. The regular way of getting HP is recording damage though, yeah. It's easiest if the last hits are with a min>max weapon but really I wouldn't wish that grueling effort on anyone.

Are monster stats scaled with dungeon difficulty now or something? (ie Does this affect every monster?)

If it is so universal, there can be a project page for mobs tracking stat differences; that way maybe someone can find a pattern?

If it's just a few mobs then yeah we may need some sort of "editions" for the monsters. Whether that's parenthesized entries or a template change to allow for switching between area-specific stats.

Posted by Kadalyn (administrator) on 9 October 2016 at 10:09.

Hi hi, sorry for the long disappearance.

I've gathered more precise numbers (thanks to Rydian, but he doesn't know it) and put them in a spreadsheet here. I was going to wait until I got through all the dungeons but events and rl have been keeping me too busy to run them, but I figure we can start with these first.

Things I've found:

  • Monsters have different HP/CP values in different dungeons
  • Monsters have different HP/CP values in different difficulties of the same dungeon
  • Monsters have different HP/CP values in a single dungeon, depending on whether they spawn in the regular rooms or boss room.

I don't know if there is a pattern because I can't seem to find one. Sometimes mobs in normal dungeons are stronger than the same mob in basic dungeons, sometimes they're weaker, sometimes they have less HP but more CP or vice versa. Sometimes the boss versions of the mobs are stronger than the regular ones in the same dungeon and sometimes they are weaker.

A LOT of the new mobs have HP and CP values that are uncomfortably specific, like the Fiodh Int boss golem having 54542 HP and 28002 CP instead of nice round numbers. (is this their way of identifying who's using CP readers? Super paranoid inb4 I get b&)

Right now the wiki uses parentheses to differentiate between different editions of different mobs, but if we expand the mob pages like that they might just end up ridiculously long. To use the Bat example again, right now there are only 3 entries for Bats and Vampire Bats. The revamp triples that:

Bats HP CP
Bat (Alby normal) 130 130
Bat (Ciar basic) 115 124
Bat (Ciar hardmode) 530 1549
Bat (Math normal) 144 147
Bat (Rabbie normal) 460 335
Bat (Rabbie basic) 250 248
Vampire Bat (Barri normal) 1010 680
Vampire Bat (Barri basic) 685 497
Vampire Bat (Peaca normal) 160 235

Or in the cases of mobs that have different stats in a single dungeon:

Gremlins HP CP
Brown Gremlin (Barri basic) 1510 930
Gray Gremlin (Barri basic) 1510 930
Gray Gremlin (Barri basic boss) 260 931
Green Gremlin (Barri basic) 2110 1230
Brown Gremlin (Barri adv) 1410 960
Gray Gremlin (Barri adv) 2510 1510
Green Gremlin (Barri adv) 3510 2010
Green Gremlin (Fiodh normal) 1865 1161
Green Gremlin (Fiodh int) 2110 1290
Green Gremlin (Fiodh int boss) 7510 4100


Someone suggested using tabs to switch between different "editions" of the mob. Another option is using a table like the shadow mission mobs. Whatever method we use to present this data, pretty much no one wants them in parenthesized list form because it would be a chaotic mess lol.

Last note - some dungeons have gained mobs (e.g. Laghodessas have been added to Barri basic). I don't know if any dungeons have lost mobs. Some of them haven't spawned, but I'm not sure if that means they aren't there or if I'm just having bad luck getting rare mobs to spawn.

Posted by Eralea on 22 December 2016 at 04:48.
Edited by Eralea on 17 January 2017 at 02:48.

In some ways I wonder if tabs are the best solution since things like the image and the drops don't change between the editions. Obviously the parentheticals are worse. The specificity would imply to me that it's some sort of calculation, and I really wish we knew it. :( But the more data we get, the better the approximation! Nonetheless that's looking too far ahead I guess.

Does anything besides the basic stats change? Like detection range or speed? If not, it might be possible to do the stats section as a table with the dungeon and difficulty (or field) on the left-hand side.

Posted by Kadalyn (administrator) on 22 December 2016 at 23:39.

I don't know how to see if the aggro stats change D: I'm laggy so to me it looks like the entire room aggros immediately. It doesn't seem likely though, so maybe we can just focus on the basic stats.

Just noticed something else that changes between mob editions - the exp gained. When the Samhain event ends I'll have more time to run dungeons again so I'll start recording those too.

I guess their damage and crit must also be different, but how in the world do we find those? My dungeon-running main has some ridiculous def stat so most mobs hit for 1 dmg (and I try not to get hit in the higher end dungeons lol...). It looks like those fields are unknown for a lot of the current mobs anyway.

Posted by Eralea on 17 January 2017 at 03:16.
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