Talk:Titles

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Chain Slasher isn't included in the Talent Titles section yet, but the Hidden Talent Titles section does.

Note that even though the game displays the correct combo of talents to trigger a combo talent title, it does not show the correct level. It always shows you your current level of those talents.

Just a note that the 4 new titles from that event need to be added.
Hide-And-Seek Champion 2nd Title, Eagle-Eyed 2nd Title, Weaker Hide-and-Seeker 2nd Title, Hypervigilant 2nd Title

Ah, they're on the title coupons page, should be easy to copy over if you're up for it.

Fate stay night titles need to be added I will do it later if i learn how to add them in without messing anything up

I got 'em, I'll add them - sorry for delay xD;

I don't see any of them on here?

Yeah, none of them are on here. I don't know the stats of the Trial titles, but I'll add the Anniversary ones under Event titles.

Supposedly all the anniversary titles have the same stats, according to the event description IIRC.

Aight. :3 I separated the individual titles to make it more clear, but if anyone else thinks they'd be better grouped as one title, that's fine~

Apparently some people are running around with 10th anniversary titles somehow? @@

Anyways, all titles do share the same stats so it might be easier to list them all separately if they have different description and make the stats span all 7 rows.

the 10th anniversary title comes out when you create a brand new character during the event. I believe its a glitch but eh.

the event titles was a glitch because mabinogi didnt implent it properly , but it happened for alot of people instead of 7th it would be that Its because in kr they were celebrating there 10 years

Ahh okay. I just thought it was weird. Should be 7th but whatever I guess lol...

I don't think Mabi's been out for 10 years, not even in KR...

The simplest of Google searches, yet no.

p.s. I didn't set this signature, so~~~

Has anyone actually beaten all trials to have all those titles? I only have seven trials. And let's not forget the seven-year wonder.

• 1st Trial: Str +1, Int +1, Dex +1, Will +1, Luck +1, HP +2, SP +2, MP +2
• 2nd Trial: Str +2, Int +2, Dex +2, Will +2, Luck +2, HP +4, SP +4, MP +4
• 3rd Trial: Str +3, Int +3, Dex +3, Will +3, Luck +3, HP +6, SP +6, MP +6
• 4th Trial: Str +4, Int +4, Dex +4, Will +4, Luck +4, HP +8, SP +8, MP +8
• 5th Trial: Str +5, Int +5, Dex +5, Will +5, Luck +5, HP +10, SP +10, MP +10
• 6th Trial: Str +6, Int +6, Dex +6, Will +6, Luck +6, HP +12, SP +12, MP +12
• 7th Trial: Str +7, Int +7, Dex +7, Will +7, Luck +7, HP +14, SP +14, MP +14
• Seven-Year Wonder: Str +10, Int +10, Dex +10, Will +10, Luck +10, HP +10, SP +10, MP +10

Trials have a pattern of +1 Str/Int/Dex/Will/Luck and +2 HP/SP/MP, but that might change in the later ones.

It keeps the pattern ending with the Final Trial Conqueror with 10 of each stat and 20 HP, MP, and SP.

I recently achieved the "Master Vagabond" title with only "Wise Warrior" and "Expert Adventurer". Does anyone else have a similar title level inconsistency? If no, perhaps I am merely experiencing a glitch/bug.

It's been a few weeks since this was implemented, can someone add these to the list?

Kinda late response but I'll add the rest of the title now. I added the Limit Breaker one a while back but I'll add the other 2 now.

Why is that under Mainstream instead of Not Implemented? NA never got it and since we're past that it's doubtful we ever will in the future.

Super super sparkly fireworks or do they not stack?

They do stack, as far as I am aware!

Can someone explain why we have a Numbered Titles and Master Titles page? I don't think either of them has been updated for the current skills.

Talk:Titles#The Titles page is awfully cluttered... was the reason why that all happened. You were there, or have you forgotten?

That's not the point of this thread. The point of this thread is to merge or keep the other pages.

In the case of keeping both pages, then they will have to be subpaged under "Titles/Master Titles" and the like.

You wanted an explanation, didn't you?

Looking into the creation date of the pages...ya no, I'm going to merge them unless someone gives a valid reason to keep them, in which case they will likely be subpaged.

before someone brings up "Let's just use Tabs!"

No, we are not going that route.

Merge them, then... Let's just use tabs!

But seriously, I'd like to know why we aren't considering using tabs. The page takes up too much vertical space and therefore there's a lot of scrolling.

What if you create a disambiguation page for titles that links to each section of the title page that will then be broken up to their own separate section (general, 2nd title, mastery, special titles [beginner, ptj, mainstream - anything that is * but not a mastery or 2nd title). which would take a bit of work

Or maybe merge all, if a little tabbing is ok, tab masteries (combat, magic, life, alch, etc...) and use hide/spoiler for the non-implemented so the page isn't too too long?

just ideas

For one reason or another (I think it's because the way Tabs template works), you can't put charts directly into tabs unless it's a template or a separate page. That makes more unnecessary pages and more work to be done.

You can put tables/charts/whatevers into tabs, however you must convert any pipes into the pipe template because pipes are interpreted as parameter prefixes.

You can put tables in tabs o-o

Thanks for repeating the first six words of my post with a link to a page that uses the one of the exceptions she stated.

You've literally done nothing in this post.

He provided an example. That's something. Meanwhile you're just being unnecessarily belligerent.

He provided an example of a page which uses one of the exceptions she already knows about. That's like you asking how to solve 5^3246562 and me telling you the answer to 1+1.

When have I not been hostile towards him?

That was supposed to be a subtle reminder that we expect people to be respectful in discussion pages as stated in the policy. I guess I need to be more direct. I admit I made a mistake since I didn't check that page's code. However, you need to keep that attitude in check.

I'm sorry I didn't read her "exceptions", but I agree with Blargel; that hostility was totally uncalled for, and you shouldn't keep that up.

Excuse for not remembering. being away too long impacts my usefulness ;c.

*pat pat*

For each tab you add to a page (not including nested tabs), you increase the workload of a simple search by onefold.

Depending on how this page will be organized, for a page as large as this, you'd end up having quite a few tabs.

I'm not too fond of tabs myself because of similar reasons that iDSd provided. With tabs, a simple ctrl+f cannot find anything in one try anymore.

“	With tabs, a simple ctrl+f cannot find anything in one try anymore.	„

^ Pretty much this, this, this, and THIS.

Good enough for me.

> mfw nothing on this page links to Master Titles or Numbered titles.

Other than the merger discussion thing.

http://puu.sh/bHgYf/b60b701f3e.png

Found this on Mabination. The person who posted it didn't show its # or what its stats were.

I just asked my friend about it, since she has the title. She told me that the number is above 100, and that the stats are Luck +20, Will +10, Int +10, Str -10, and Prot -5.

it's between guard cylinder master and friend of anju

I received Tiny Wanderer hint at exploration level 45. I was age 10 at the time but I have no idea if it's a factor in it.

What do you mean by factor? I thought it was already stated somewhere, but indeed the title is for exploration 50 at age 10.

I'm talking about receiving the hint. By factor I mean whether or not being age 10 is required to receive the hint.

I would assume the hint comes similarly to combat "reached level 50 at age 10", reaching 50 at 11 or high enough at age 10.

Do they stack?

I think we should discuss a way to reduce the clutter on the titles page.

It's quite a big page, and titles are all over the place, with Prefix titles interspersed with regular titles, obsolete Destiny titles, as well as Talent level titles which are already found on the Talent page.

The page itself is quite large, and I would think some way to hide the sections shown would help greatly.

I think the prefixes should be moved and put together, maybe the talents can move (but they're still titles so they have to stay somewhere). A bit of reorganization of the rest and it should be fine. Hiddentext stuff we probably shouldn't use since it interrupts Ctrl-F.

There could be a redirect, when searching for Talent titles, that goes to Talent as the relevant information is there.

I also think that there is too much segregation between regular titles. It's annoying when you're looking for all of the numbered titles and they are all out of order, spread around in various sections because of rather arbitrary connections with other titles.

In regards to Hiddentext, is it possible to add something that will show all Hiddentext at once?

Not that I'm aware of.

Isn't it the parameter:

• |show=

I think you put y, or 1, or...yes? i dunno. You guys do mean, Show from the start instead of hiding right?

I think he's asking so that if you press show on one table, it opens them all.though that'd just scroll you up if there are multiple hidden text tags above your current page location.

I think it's possible, but it would be a lot more complicated than the hidden text template we have now.

As long as we don't remove destiny titles.

Could be moved to the end of the page, with a warning that says these titles are no longer in use.

Or a redirect to the relevant page...

need to a put warning for "the use of crtl+F may help" or something. like what i put on my story page, only much more professional looking.

How about creating a Category:Titles page to allow for multiple smaller pages instead of one big clusterfuck?

That sounds incredibly inconvenient for comparing titles.

The current Title page is barely better.

Point is, it is better.

Multiple pages no....doing something this:

"I can't find anything in this blasted abomination of an article!" The use of "Ctrl + F" is highly recommended for finding something quickly.

yeah I'm down with that. Oh yeah, please don't actually place that on the page...that's is for my personal use on this page among other custom character templates found across my subpages and what not...these things are really fun, but since we're going for a professional approach...yeah doubt I'll see any of these floating around.

There's no need to create any additional pages. Think we should just move the unused titles all the way to the bottom with the future content ones, then talent and prefix titles, then the rest. Numbered titles should go together, event, transformations, etc. can go after that.

I think secondary titles (Dan rank prefixes and event suffixes) can be moved to their own page.

Destiny titles should be moved to an archive page.

Talent titles aren't really titles, so they don't belong here.

They could, but I don't see much point, would rather group them together and have them lower.
I don't feel like there's enough destiny titles to be worth archiving, but I doubt anybody would be searching for them either, so whatever works.
Talent titles have to stay somewhere here in the event someone searches up "titles" looking for talent titles.

References at the top that say "If you are looking for the Talent title, go here: Talent" solves that issue.

Secondary titles don't have to be on the same page because there isn't much reason to compare them to regular titles; you get their bonuses together with regular titles and your choice of plain title doesn't affect the availability of secondary titles or visaversa(except in the case of Dan rank titles, but those have no stats) so nobody has to look through secondary title bonuses to decide which main title to use. Right now there are enough secondary titles for them to have their own page.

Since destiny titles are no longer available, there is no reason to clutter anything other than archives with them. A link to Destiny#Titles is enough.

Things that aren't relevant to titles don't have to stay anywhere on the titles page. Helping people who put the wrong thing in search is what Template:For is for.

So, er, we gonna do something or no?

Personally I vote for no.

Talent titles should be replaced with a link to the relevant page, but all the other changes are unnecessary.

A semblance of organization is unnecessary?

What a world you live in...

Other way around, breaking up the title page is a taboo, making new pages is not. If you want to make a page for str giving titles, another for int giving titles, etc, go on. But don't dissect this page.

Have to dissect it to make new pages.out of it...

And it still deserves a remodelling to have organize it better.

What did we just say? Don't dissect this page.

If you want to make smaller more specific pages similar to what we do for enchants, that's fine, but don't break searching and sorting on this one.

You have to dissect it to copy relevant information for the individual pages...

Oh, you're assuming that the information won't stay here.

lol

You're either planning to piss us off, or misusing the word "dissect".

dis·sect diˈsektdī- verb verb: dissect; 3rd person present: dissects; past tense: dissected; past participle: dissected; gerund or present participle: dissecting

   1.
   methodically cut up (a body, part, or plant) in order to study its internal parts

Mmm... as far as I can tell, no.

Maybe because I hadn't mentioned putting it all back after I copied it?

I think you'd be better off just using the word analyze, not dissect. Dissection implies its irreparably disassembled. Either way, as long as the Titles page remains the same or nearly the same, go for it.

Maybe it does to you but 'dissect' is appropriate terminology as far as I can tell.

Either way, term doesn't matter. Create a new page if you must but lets be conservative about the Titles page in this case.

Breaking up the page would be the opposite of organization. Having everything together makes it sortable and more easily searchable.

We have a page for all enchants together, but we still have pages for individual rank enchants.

Is that not sortable?

And searchable?

Let's try this for example: Prefixe titles on their own page, regular titles on their own page, Talent titles on Talent and Destiny titles on Destiny... all connected by a Category:Titles page. Then individual pages for titles with specific benefits, like Enchant Modifiers pages.

Think that that is bad?

That's mostly fine as long as we still have at least one page that has all regular titles and at least one that has all the secondary titles.

Talent Titles can go on a titles Disambiguation page since they have a similar name, but they don't belong in a Titles category.

Then we're in agreement, and breaking up the Title page is not taboo.

Don't we have anchors for the redirects?

No one cares about he anchors on the glossary page to be implemented here huh...?

No clue what an anchor is in regards to a wiki, sorry. :(

There already is anchors, I had Kevin add them in a year go. Though for some reason, they don't work.

I don't mean to necro, but whatever happened to Project Cleanup?

I don't think any consensus was made. I still say put a notice for Ctrl+F somewhere due to the large size of the page.

I'm fine with Ctrl + F.

What do we do about those titles on separate pages? Numbered Titles, Master Titles, etc.

I still don't quite understand the point of making pages like Numbered Titles and Master Titles. Would've been better to just make tables of Str-Giving Titles, Int-Giving Titles, etc. Similar to the enchant pages.

Might be better to lump under the existing enchant ones, only have an area for titles. Plus I think those titles are specifically named [StatName] Modifiers

Wow...this page really does need clean up then. Everything should be kept in on place...in some form or another.

What do we do about this page then?

IMO I don't see the point of keeping the General Titles section separated into categories, I think it'd look better in numerical order. Then again, those asterisk titles could be a problem...

Oh, how quickly this was forgotten...

Remind me again why someone decided to put those titles in their own pages?

I...have no idea. I haven't found a decent method to merge all the pages. It'll be a super large page regardless.

Whoa this needs to be cleaned out...moving on, Are Show-Off Steak titles suppose to remain in your title list when you want to change it...? I just cc'd and it hasn't shown up again since but ehh I'll just leave what I got here:

The Ducky:
Use this title and drop some gold on the ground... Maybe someone will mistake you as 'Lucky' by mistake!

yeah...I don't even know.

Currently cleaning up the Prefix Titles page for eventual transclusion on this page. Under Event Prefix Titles, "Aer" gives Bolt Magic Damage +5, while "Succubus Kristell" gives Bolt Magic Damage +2%. Is this correct? Does "Aer" really increase damage by a fixed 5 points, while "Succubus Kristell" increases damage relative to your original damage?

Also, I am looking for ideas on how to reduce the size of the page. I currently have it down to 17473 bytes from 21391 bytes, but I feel that is still too much.

I'd like to do something with the Event Prefix Titles section to slim it down more, but I am not sure what. Something that has been bugging me is that all of the Titles from the Strange Cat Gachapon show the same requirement:

“	Obtained upon using a Title Coupon from the Strange Cat Gachapon.	„

All 59 of them. Very repetitive. Any suggestions?

The current requirement lists this:

“	Feed a Hot Spring Monkey, and receive a Hot Spring Cap in return.	„

However, the monkeys that are normally fed for rewards are the Glutton Monkeys, not Hot Spring Monkeys.

Is this requirement accurate? I'd like to know, as I am updating Numbered Titles at the moment and will eventually update Titles with it.

Yeah, this is still an open question, guys and gals.

Um, whats a good way to get that title? That is, what am I supposed to feed the monkey with?

Glutton monkey's still reward the cap for loved foods

What food? Bleh I'll just search it myself...

And isn't it also a liked food reward too?

well as long as you get the cap from the monkey, you're fine.

Do you feed Glutton Monkeys or Hot Spring Monkeys? There has been no clarification as of yet...

I don't think you can feed the hot spring monkeys anymore. Just the gluttons.

Glutton's are the new hotspring

Should a section of the wiki page be devoted to them? I've not messed with Titles itself, but on other Category:Titles pages (so far being Master Titles and Numbered Titles), I've been deleting the messages denoting an error and correcting the title effect itself.

I'm fine so long as it mentions the error somewhere in the entry itself, not like a note at the very bottom of the page unless you add a ref.

How does one code a Ref tag?

Edit: Never mind.

I have obtained the title during Saga Episode 3, I think the old requirement of doing 3 or more Shadow Missions in a row actually works. I have done it without relogging, on a character that has never ventured into the Shadow Realm or a Shadow Mission prior to the Saga.

Um, according to the map, there's 3 ostrich routes now, not one...

Cool story. Update it.

Cross-post from here because I don't think too many people are watching that page, and it also applies to this page and any further pages on Titles.

“	Due to the variety of users that have compiled the Mastery titles on Titles over the years, and the evolution of terminology, I feel it would be beneficial to establish a standard format for Mastery titles (and titles in general). First, Positive attributes before negative. Second, attributes have to be listed in an order. This is my list of priorities for attributes: Skill-unique stats. (ex: When equipped with a Sword, +10% Balance) Damage attributes (Max Attack, Magic Attack, Marionette Attack,Alchemy Damage, etc.) Defense attributes (Defense, Protection, Magic Defense, Magic Protection, Marionette Defense, etc.) Stat changes (Max HP, Max Stamina, Max MP, Strength, Intelligence, Dexterity, Will, Luck, etc.) Yet other things like Set effects or anything not covered. I will be organising the Master Titles by this standard, which is subject to change by discussion. Also, I feel that a new table for displaying the titles would be nice too. Thoughts?	„

Or make a sort able table with a stat +/- :x...too much work, a lot of formating, and then there's the miscellaous bonuses such as +gathering rate and what not...

I'm willing to do all the updating and sorting of the titles if someone has some new table formats other than MabiTable.

I think 1 and 5 should be merged, but otherwise, I agree.
We could always make data templates for tables and use style templates, would be less messy/easier to mass edit. (Like Kevin and I did with Lists pages.) Though the problem is, that will take a lot of manual work because data pages for titles do not yet exist.

I'm willing to help out with whatever needs to be done, but I'm gonna need help with that (because I wouldn't know what to do).

Although... you're only using the data in one place... so I don't really see a point in templating it.

I thought we planned on making individual pages for each title type, and and also having it on the main page? Though you have a point.

Main page?

Titles page.

Traaaaansclusion?

Ahhhh, okay.

My goals are three-fold:

1. Split Titles page into many smaller, more specific sub-pages.
2. Update all of those pages to make them more consistent and visually appealing.
3. Transclude updates to those sections on Titles.

So far, there hasn't been a significant-enough change to update anything. It's a work in-progress, but it would be great if I get some help with it.

How may I assist?

Explain to me what needs to be done to do something similar to what you have done for Enchants.

I wasn't the one who did enchants, but basically, using this title for example:
|-
| the Master of [[Combat Mastery|Combat]]
| <span style="color:blue">Max HP +20<br />Max Stamina +20<br />Strength +10</span><br /><span style="color:red">Intelligence -10<br />Luck -20</span>
that is what is currently in the table format. So, what we'd do is we decide on a standard name for these parameters, like Name, HP, SP, MP, Str, etc; and paste it on a page along the name of Template:DataTitlethe Master of Combat or something. Then we make a Style template, which would include first of all a template for the header (or just include the header in the page) and then a list template like this, which organizes the paramets from the data template, and just on the titles page type something along the lines of "{{Datawhatever|Stylewhatever}}." My main concern would be how to make it so positive numbers appear on top and negative numbers appear on bottom (if we go with the current format and not redesign the template). The advantage of a data/style approach is that if we edit the template, we only have to edit that template and all the entries would automatically follow the new design, rather than manually editing each one every single time. But as Kevin said, each title will probably only ever be used on one page, minus maybe skill titles, so I don't know if it would be that useful.

I don't believe that Kevin was referring to that in that way.

“	Although... you're only using the data in one place... so I don't really see a point in templating it.	„

From this quote, I garnered that he misunderstood the plans for the Titles.

Also, enchants are used just as much on the wiki. There aren't many pages outside of the Enchant pages and Skill pages that have enchants listed, yet look at the templates it has.

You're forgetting modifier pages.

Those are pretty much enchant-only pages, Kevin.

I sense some sort of misunderstanding.

What kevin is trying to get at is

Rank 6 Skill Page Modifier Page

Master Title Skill Page

That there would be at least two pages for all enchants and three for some, but only one page for most titles and two for some.

There will be Status modifier pages for Titles.

And there will be plenty other Title-based pages.

When I said I would make Category:Titles the Category:Enchants of Titles, did you think I was joking?

Sortability is a must. Not to mention the lack of visual appeal for the current tables.

Ah, then sounds good. If you create a base table design I can try and make it a template.

Looking at the table format, the problem with the table for Titles is that it is too wide. I think a new table format should be less wide.

If you're going to make each stat it's own sortable column, I don't see how you can.

Err... that's not how Enchants were done and that's not how I would like Titles done.

Wasn't the whole point of this to make title stats more easily sortable?

Yes, but there won't be sortability for each stat...

I don't see what's wrong with the current way master titles are formatted in skill pages? It's not like you'll ever need to sort them or anything.

Ctrl+F solves EVERYTHING 8D...

I don't think you want to make a sortable table...

What's wrong with that? Assuming we make a mouseover box to hover over text and says which stat it is (which would be easy if we go data/style), that format seems alright to me, just a bit squished.

table width is dependent on screen resolution. Spanning over 2 screens

Such a large table is not necessary. Not a single table under Category:Enchants covers every single stat in a single table. They are split into various Status Modifier pages to cover each individual stat or aspect changed. I'd love to see a Status Modifier-esque table done for Titles.

I personally think enchants should have a page like this, though not INSTEAD of enchant modifier pages.

You know, I personally think it is fine as is since there are so many titles that can easily out do like...half the master titles. If you guys want to sort the whole thing, be my guess. I was just testing something to see if it works. Other than the whole "Screen resolution" problem, there really isn't much stopping the table.

Nothing can replace the functionality of Ctrl+F!

If it's status...that's fine but I'm sure people would rather see things as a whole...So I guess we can drop titles that don't really add any statistical value...like lance charge.

There could be an "Other" page for modifiers like that that don't fall under a category, like Support Shot's damage boost.

Could you try making a(n Enchant) status modifier style table next?

While you guys are modifying the titles page, include both knowledge and learned official descriptions too?

What do you mean?

• Before Mastering: Fullfil the requirements to reach Rank 1 <skillname>. or Meet all the training requirements to each <skillname> Rank 1 and you will recieve the title to prove it.
• After Mastering: An honorable title awarded to someone who has reached the highest level available in <skillname>.

it's pretty much that. :/